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Ted Kennedy has died

nytimes.com

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Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#71

Post by plinkplonk »

palish wrote: post #67
stevoski wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right on. Those of us outside the states just don't care that one of your politicians died - unless he was a competent computer expert. I come here for "Hacker News", not political death notices. Shall I post here when a long-serving New Zealand politician dies?

So click the "flag" button on the article. If enough of us flag it, then the article gets killed.

"If enough of us flag it, then the article gets killed."

I am sure many people are flagging this article.

That said, I'd be very surprised if this story got killed. I think the "get enough flags and the story gets automatically killed" feature is overridden for stories with a large number of upvotes and needs moderator approval.

I suspect this is one of those cases where the majority of American HN users can't see why this submission is not significant and worthy of HN attention and the majority of non Americans are wondering why it is.

As a thought experiment, if the majority of HN users were, say, Russians, I doubt this story would be on the front page or the top news item. But then the occasional Russian political news would leak through the "intellectually interesting" lens and the non Russians would be complaining!

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#72

Post by TomOfTTB »

unalone wrote: post #42
TomOfTTB wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially this one. I'm hesitant to comment on this because this article really doesn't belong here. But the fact remains Ted Kennedy left a woman for dead after driving his car into a body of water. He didn't contact the authorities when it happened, he instead went back to his hotel. When at his hotel (and I take this quote from the Wikipedia entry) he... "According to his own testimony, Kennedy swam across the 50…

Perhaps those of us that like Ted Kennedy weren't the ones bashing Michael Jackson? I'm inclined to forgive people their many, many errors. I see no harm in looking at a man's accomplishments and ignoring his failures. Michael Jackson was a man who changed the entertainment world. Ted Kennedy spent decades fighting for his causes without rest. Each did unpleasant things, but those things don't eliminate the good each…

I do see a problem in ignoring a fault when that fault is "killed someone and received no punishment for it". It's an injustice to the victim to do anything else.

If Justice is not an ideal you hold than you wouldn't agree with me on that.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#73

Post by danielrhodes »

unalone wrote: post #64
danielrhodes wrote: post #62

For those of you who are questioning why this deserves to be here: obviously HN is predominantly tech/entrepreneur related, but don't be so fundamentalist about it. Ted Kennedy was a prolific senator who was one of the most influential members of the most powerful government in the world -- his death deserves discussion not just among those interested in politics but in other circles as well. HN has a great community…

There's a value in asking whether something's Hacker News or not. In the end, we are the users, and we decide what we want to see. When we don't like what we see, however, there's no harm in discussing it, in the hope that like-minded people see it and are inspired.

That's what the voting buttons next to the story are for. If you discuss the article itself, then you should add value to the discussion. Complaining about the presence of the story itself when the community obviously voted it up to the top is not adding value, it's only adding negativity.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#74

Post by unalone »

danielrhodes wrote: post #73
unalone wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a value in asking whether something's Hacker News or not. In the end, we are the users, and we decide what we want to see. When we don't like what we see, however, there's no harm in discussing it, in the hope that like-minded people see it and are inspired.

That's what the voting buttons next to the story are for. If you discuss the article itself, then you should add value to the discussion. Complaining about the presence of the story itself when the community obviously voted it up to the top is not adding value, it's only adding negativity.

I would agree if there was a downvote option, so that people who don't like a story could have a say. As it is, a vocal-and-irritating minority can push stories to the top without anybody else being able to stop it.

(I don't refer to this story when I say that, mind you. We all have our pet peeves.)

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#75

Post by palish »

plinkplonk wrote: post #71
palish wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So click the "flag" button on the article. If enough of us flag it, then the article gets killed.

"If enough of us flag it, then the article gets killed." I am sure many people are flagging this article. That said, I'd be very surprised if this story got killed. I think the "get enough flags and the story gets automatically killed" feature is overridden for stories with a large number of upvotes and needs moderator approval. I suspect this is one of those cases where the majority of American HN users can't see wh…

I doubt many people were flagging the story because the "flag" feature is very subtle. Maybe now that someone has mentioned flagging, this story will soon be dead. I guess time will tell.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#76

Post by unalone »

TomOfTTB wrote: post #72
unalone wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps those of us that like Ted Kennedy weren't the ones bashing Michael Jackson? I'm inclined to forgive people their many, many errors. I see no harm in looking at a man's accomplishments and ignoring his failures. Michael Jackson was a man who changed the entertainment world. Ted Kennedy spent decades fighting for his causes without rest. Each did unpleasant things, but those things don't eliminate the good each…

I do see a problem in ignoring a fault when that fault is "killed someone and received no punishment for it". It's an injustice to the victim to do anything else. If Justice is not an ideal you hold than you wouldn't agree with me on that.

Suggesting I don't believe in justice because I like Ted Kennedy? That's a bit vicious, don't you think?

Look, I think that Ted deserved punishment for what he did. Of course he did. At the same time, I can't blame him for using connections to get out of that mess. I'll be totally honest and say that if I fucked up big-time, I'd do everything I could to avoid years in prison for it. Not because I think people should get away with killing people, but because years in prison is a terrifying punishment. So while I kind of wish he'd been given more than a slap on the wrist, I don't hold it against him that he wasn't punished.

To suggest that he wasn't changed by what he did, however, is ludicrous. I'm certain he was haunted by that incident for a long, long time, and that it changed who he was as a person. Certainly the Ted Kennedy that died today was not the Ted Kennedy that once abandoned a dying woman.

We all grow up and leave our tragic youths behind. Some youths are just much more tragic than others.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#77

Post by roundsquare »

unalone wrote: post #42
TomOfTTB wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially this one. I'm hesitant to comment on this because this article really doesn't belong here. But the fact remains Ted Kennedy left a woman for dead after driving his car into a body of water. He didn't contact the authorities when it happened, he instead went back to his hotel. When at his hotel (and I take this quote from the Wikipedia entry) he... "According to his own testimony, Kennedy swam across the 50…

Perhaps those of us that like Ted Kennedy weren't the ones bashing Michael Jackson? I'm inclined to forgive people their many, many errors. I see no harm in looking at a man's accomplishments and ignoring his failures. Michael Jackson was a man who changed the entertainment world. Ted Kennedy spent decades fighting for his causes without rest. Each did unpleasant things, but those things don't eliminate the good each…

I don't think its right to ignore someone's failures. However, it is right to balance their failures and accomplishments.

I'm hesitant to jump into this and try to balance this myself, but Chappaquiddick is a huge mark against him.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#78

Post by rms »

unalone wrote: post #42
TomOfTTB wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially this one. I'm hesitant to comment on this because this article really doesn't belong here. But the fact remains Ted Kennedy left a woman for dead after driving his car into a body of water. He didn't contact the authorities when it happened, he instead went back to his hotel. When at his hotel (and I take this quote from the Wikipedia entry) he... "According to his own testimony, Kennedy swam across the 50…

Perhaps those of us that like Ted Kennedy weren't the ones bashing Michael Jackson? I'm inclined to forgive people their many, many errors. I see no harm in looking at a man's accomplishments and ignoring his failures. Michael Jackson was a man who changed the entertainment world. Ted Kennedy spent decades fighting for his causes without rest. Each did unpleasant things, but those things don't eliminate the good each…

He did pay one serious price in that incident made him unelectable as US President.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#79

Post by rogerthat »

TomOfTTB wrote: post #70
rogerthat wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You hypocrite! First remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye." - Early Hacker

The point of the quote you are using is that judgement should be left to God and not man (the statement itself is kind of judgmental but I guess that's accepted because Jesus and God are both part of the trinity in Christianity). If you subscribe to that theory of life than more power to you. I do not. I have no problem passing judgement on someone who killed an innocent young woman and honestly my experience is that…

Do you not see any possible explanation for why a public figure such as Ted Kennedy would have wanted to walk away from the scene of that accident? Isn't it the most human response, to walk away ashamed of what you have done? Don't you think he regretted it, probably for the rest of his life? And now I would ask you, have you ever done anything you didn't intend to that you were ashamed of?

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#80

Post by unalone »

roundsquare wrote: post #77
unalone wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps those of us that like Ted Kennedy weren't the ones bashing Michael Jackson? I'm inclined to forgive people their many, many errors. I see no harm in looking at a man's accomplishments and ignoring his failures. Michael Jackson was a man who changed the entertainment world. Ted Kennedy spent decades fighting for his causes without rest. Each did unpleasant things, but those things don't eliminate the good each…

I don't think its right to ignore someone's failures. However, it is right to balance their failures and accomplishments. I'm hesitant to jump into this and try to balance this myself, but Chappaquiddick is a huge mark against him.

[...] it is right to balance their failures and accomplishments [...] Chappaquiddick is a huge mark against him

The terminologies you're using suggest somehow ranking him, or judging him. I don't think that's useful at all. Ted Kennedy is dead. Most likely, I'll never think of him much after today. While he was alive, I never had to vote for him, or vote on his policies. So to me, and I'm sure to you, he is an abstract celebrity.

I gain nothing by judging him on Chappaquiddick. How do I balance that against his push for health care? What does the one have to do with the other? Nothing: I can judge each on its own merits. As it happens, the health care debate is far from over; Chappaquiddick is an ancient tragedy.

When I think about a life that's just died, I see no wrong in thinking about only the good. That's not to say I'll go about pretending Ted Kennedy was a hero of mine. It just says that I won't pretend that I'm using his death as a moral lesson, and so won't pretend that I care much about his murky past or that I see any value in damning a dead man.

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