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iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

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Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#201

Post by moe »

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #111
awhitty wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's the "easy way out," in a way. Sure, it's not easy to provide the services for free, but it also doesn't particularly excuse them. Like Netflix vs. YouTube. Netflix fights for your ability to stream HD videos comfortably because you pay for the service. YouTube crams a perfectly-buffered, crisp HD ad down your throat before leaving you with a video that might stutter or fail to load even at 480p. Sure,…

I've noticed on Youtube they seem to buffer really popular videos really well, things like Gangnam Style when it was being played probably to tens of thousands of simultaneous users were surprisingly good - I think they have some sort of really good buffered caching or something. I suspect they might do the same with adverts that they know will stay the same and know they will serve to many users. The disconnect is t…

You are correct.

Due to the nature of how CDNs work the ads don't normally need special treatment.

They simply benefit from being 'very popular videos'. Meaning they stay hot in all edge caches because everyone, everywhere is watching them all the time.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#203

Post by nolite »

jackcarter wrote: post #200
nolite wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't understand patterns from random data. Am I missing something you're seeing?

They can still understand when anonymous shoppers arrive and when they leave. However, I think zaroth is underestimating how much more useful it is to track an individual shopper's visits over time.

If the devices now send a random address for each probe request, you can't even do that anymore... all you'll have is a database full of single requests for a ton of random macaddress

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#204

Post by andor »

therobotking wrote: post #15

There's a great app for rooted Android devices called Pry-fi that generates random MAC addresses while you're not connected to a network. edit: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.chainfire.p...

Thanks for the tip!

In reaction to the iOS news, the developer of Pry-Fi wrote this post about the state of the application:

https://plus.google.com/+Chainfire/posts/Y4fjP6cH45v

Since the phone-specific Wifi stacks/drivers seem to be the main compatibility problem, I guess MAC randomization could be implemented as a Cyanogenmod feature on the device level.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#205

Post by Robadob »

savrajsingh wrote: post #146

Princeton's guest network allows users to join for up to 3 days a month. I guess this change will nullify that restriction. :)

Once connected the devices will use their actual mac address (else how would mac address filtering work with iphones?), so nothing will be different to usual.

But generally yes changing a mac-address can avoid limitation restrictions like this.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#206

Post by egli »

bbatsell wrote: post #14
qq66 wrote: post #2

This is Apple forcing the in-store analytics companies like Euclid to use iBeacon rather than WiFi. With the market share numbers the way they are, though, for all but the highest-end stores what Android does matters more.

I feel like this comment might give a mistaken impression, so I'd like to clarify. Simply rolling out iBeacons does not replicate the copious data that one can currently get by monitoring WiFi probe requests. iBeacons, as designed, broadcast packets at a set rate using Bluetooth LE, and devices scan for those broadcasts. There is no two-way communication, and no probe requests from client devices. In order for a comp…

It is also worth noting that apps are only given access to scan for beacons if they have location services enabled. To be tracked using iBeacon, you have to download an app that scans for the correct UUID and have location services enabled for that app.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#207

Post by bcohen5055 »

userbinator wrote: post #134
brunnsbe wrote: post #6

If this becomes the trend (which in my opinon would be nice) it will become a big problem for companies that specialise in customer tracking e.g. for supermarkets and big department stores. Previously it was quite easy to track a customer, how long he or she spends time in the store, which floors he or she visits, etc. by putting up dummy WiFI-networks that the customers phones find by giving out their MAC-addresses.

It's disturbingly creepy to think that stores would even think of doing this, but on the other hand it's also an indication of how clueless the general population is about the amount of identifiable data they're unconsciously "leaking" through personal, (nearly) always-on devices. My laptop is setup with a random MAC precisely to prevent this sort of tracking. Interestingly, the unbranded Android phones I have (one l…

Why is this so creepy? They know a piece of hardware has been in certain locations for a certain amount of time. This data can help improve your shopping experience and help the store better market to you. (While also increasing their sales). There is nothing personal about at MAC address go ahead and track it.

Also... Yes keeping your phone in Airplane mode is a bit paranoid.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#208

Post by twistedpair »

twistedpair wrote: post #8

It's about time. I quite intentionally keep my wifi mode off for this reason until I intend to use a network. No doubt someone is tracking and selling every transmission you make. FWIW, once you read about a PoC of an attack/tracking vector on HackaDay, you can be sure it's already in production tracking you. http://www.tomsguide.com/us/how-to-bluesniper-pt1,review-408... https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/0…

For the click averse, the above links are

* BlueTooth Sniper Rifle

* Tracking people by air pressure chips in car tires

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#209

Post by bsimpson »

userbinator wrote: post #134
brunnsbe wrote: post #6

If this becomes the trend (which in my opinon would be nice) it will become a big problem for companies that specialise in customer tracking e.g. for supermarkets and big department stores. Previously it was quite easy to track a customer, how long he or she spends time in the store, which floors he or she visits, etc. by putting up dummy WiFI-networks that the customers phones find by giving out their MAC-addresses.

It's disturbingly creepy to think that stores would even think of doing this, but on the other hand it's also an indication of how clueless the general population is about the amount of identifiable data they're unconsciously "leaking" through personal, (nearly) always-on devices. My laptop is setup with a random MAC precisely to prevent this sort of tracking. Interestingly, the unbranded Android phones I have (one l…

I'm a technologist and I didn't know that devices advertise their MAC addresses when scanning for WiFi until someone in that business told me. I always thought it was the other way around (base stations advertise themselves and devices affiliate with ones they recognize).

Though accurate, "clueless" is a bit harsh. I don't expect the general public to know the implementation details of WiFi any more than I expect them to understand how a catalytic converter works. The beauty of an abstraction is that you get to reap its benefits without understanding precisely how it works.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#210

Post by ZachPruckowski »

shurcooL wrote: post #98
x0x0 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a simple test: if data companies collect where clearly explained to the user, would the user approve or not? "By entering this store, we will permanently record your location every 60 seconds. The main purpose of said data collection is attempting to stitch your actions on the internet to store visits to more effectively sell advertising. Further, we will sell this data to many companies, most of whom we don't d…

Well put analogy. My guess is that most people would not be okay with that and choose to opt out. But my question/argument is, would that be a rational decision? I don't see a lot of benefit for the customer to deny the store those options, so why do it if there's nothing to be gained from denying. > attempting to stitch your actions on the internet to store visits to more effectively sell advertising I think this is…

>But my question/argument is, would that be a rational decision?

Does that matter? We[1] live in a capitalist democracy. One of the tenets of capitalism is that consumers should be well-informed and "vote with their dollars/feet", and the core principle of democracy is that the individual citizens get to decide how their society is run. We don't live in a LessWrong-ocracy where the world is run based on somebody's idea of rational objectivity or whatever.

I'm in politics so I know exactly how frustrating it can be when the average Joe doesn't necessarily agree with your vision of a rational decision, but if that's the case, the solution is to change their minds, not to circumvent or obfuscate to get around them.

[1] - I'm thinking Westerners in general, but I'm American, so I may be over-generalizing, we're good at that :-)

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