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Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

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Re: Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

#81

Post by jpatokal »

ChuckFrank wrote: post #11

Having studied in China, and worked in construction, all I can say is that this smells, far and wide, like there was some kickback somewhere in this process. I'm guessing on the Chinese soil end of things. From first hand experience, I know it happens on American soil all the time as well, but, from what little I saw in 1999 the Chinese culture of kickback in China takes it to a whole new level. Also, can somebody ex…

It's a single roundtrip in business class. And if you're flying to Shanghai and back once a month for several years on end, like he clearly did in 2010-2011, doing it all in economy is pretty brutal.

Also, the $10k is an outlier, and might well be two trips in a single month. The vast majority of his fares were under $5k, and there are some visits under $2k.

Re: Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

#82

Post by msandford »

User9812 wrote: post #70
vacri wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer to this question: "And why would you go first/business class?" Is this statement: "It's a huge project" Apart from getting far enough along in your career to be handling huge projects and therefore probably entitled to some cream, it also just doesn't make sense from a business point of view - save a few thousand on a flight, but the extra fatigue makes good decision-making harder. Put another way: who sho…

Agree on this one. I imagine they factored the prices of business class flights into their bid on the project. People that are higher up in any industry want a few perks. I can't imagine telling someone that's at the top in the industry you'll need to send them on 64 flights to Shanghai, in economy class. That's basically a form of torture, so you need to put them up in business class and a decent hotel, otherwise th…

I would completely agree with all of this if the guy running the project was competent. If he was a licensed PE and he got the bridge built correctly, shit give him double for the travel expenses. But he was a lawyer bossing engineers around and making decisions far outside his realm of expertise. As such the criticism stands.

Re: Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

#83

Post by Mvandenbergh »

ChuckFrank wrote: post #21

What a fiasco. This story just keeps getting bigger and bigger. So many lessons to be learned about a flawed bidding and construction process. And from what I see, it's immune to politics. No party can take the higher ground. Public sector graft and private sector lying, cheating and thieving, both need to be stopped and big, small government, or running government like a business doesn't seem to help. Instead, worki…

I don't really see any evidence of corruption here. Just accepting a low bid from a contractor that scored poorly on the technical evaluation. Sometimes that pays off, in this case it clearly didn't.

Re: Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

#84

Post by TheLoneWolfling »

clarkm wrote: post #12
brohoolio wrote: post #4

Original story - http://www.sacbee.com/static/sinclair/sinclair.jquery/baybri... It's a pet peeve of mine when it's really a story about a story.

I really love the progress bar on the top of the page. I wish more long form articles were like that.

First thing I did was inspect element to get rid of it.

I have little enough vertical screen real estate. I don't need random websites throwing up redundant (and poor) approximations to ubiquitous UI elements.

Re: Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

#85

Post by Spooky23 »

Mvandenbergh wrote: post #83
ChuckFrank wrote: post #21

What a fiasco. This story just keeps getting bigger and bigger. So many lessons to be learned about a flawed bidding and construction process. And from what I see, it's immune to politics. No party can take the higher ground. Public sector graft and private sector lying, cheating and thieving, both need to be stopped and big, small government, or running government like a business doesn't seem to help. Instead, worki…

I don't really see any evidence of corruption here. Just accepting a low bid from a contractor that scored poorly on the technical evaluation. Sometimes that pays off, in this case it clearly didn't.

The refusal and coverup/whitewashing of the quality problems is a criminal act. Corruption isn't just taking bags of money -- it's ignoring things that affect public safety to defend you career as well.

Re: Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

#86

Post by Mvandenbergh »

literalusername wrote: post #13
crahrah wrote: post #8

Seems the fact that the company was Chinese is pretty irrelevant - and yet it's repeated over an over. China is the new bogeyman.

Not at all. You apparently didn't read the article. "Caltrans employees and U.S. contractors who supervised the job lived fulltime in Shanghai, and top officials flew there often. Tony Anziano, toll bridge program manager, alone spent more than $300,000 on travel. "Part of that cost was for Anziano’s room at the five-star JW Marriott Shanghai Tomorrow Square for up to $470 per night, according to his expense reports.…

>Moreover, the fact that so many tax dollars were paid to a foreign company is offensive. Even if that company was at all competent, it shows a disregard for the American economy.

The reason that the US doesn't restrict foreign engineering companies from getting government contracts is that it wants US companies to be able to bid on government projects in other countries.

Re: Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

#87

Post by crazytony »

vacri wrote: post #51
ChuckFrank wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you need to book a week ahead? And why would you go first/business class? It's a huge project, there's got to be scheduled client side meetings, and those should be scheduled months in advance.

The answer to this question: "And why would you go first/business class?" Is this statement: "It's a huge project" Apart from getting far enough along in your career to be handling huge projects and therefore probably entitled to some cream, it also just doesn't make sense from a business point of view - save a few thousand on a flight, but the extra fatigue makes good decision-making harder. Put another way: who sho…

>>it also just doesn't make sense from a business point of view - save a few thousand on a flight, but the extra fatigue makes good decision-making harder.

I can vouch for this. It makes good decision making almost impossible. I've made a ton of trans-Pacific trips and jetlag has a much bigger effect on you when you've not been able to sleep or slept poorly on the plane. Business class really does help to reduce the jetlag.

Re: Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

#88

Post by crazytony »

manifesto wrote: post #18
ChuckFrank wrote: post #11

Having studied in China, and worked in construction, all I can say is that this smells, far and wide, like there was some kickback somewhere in this process. I'm guessing on the Chinese soil end of things. From first hand experience, I know it happens on American soil all the time as well, but, from what little I saw in 1999 the Chinese culture of kickback in China takes it to a whole new level. Also, can somebody ex…

I just searched on Delta.com. If you book a week ahead, the price for a round trip ticket in First/business class ranges from $6,000 to $11,000, so spending 10k in a month is "normal".

Call Delta and tell them you need to send 3-5 people a month from SFO to PVG in business class for the next 3-5 years. You won't pay $6-$11k per ticket.

Re: Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

#89

Post by Shivetya »

ChuckFrank wrote: post #21

What a fiasco. This story just keeps getting bigger and bigger. So many lessons to be learned about a flawed bidding and construction process. And from what I see, it's immune to politics. No party can take the higher ground. Public sector graft and private sector lying, cheating and thieving, both need to be stopped and big, small government, or running government like a business doesn't seem to help. Instead, worki…

I am trying to understand how this fiasco is any different from Boston's big dig? Are we just posturing because it was a Chinese company? Neither was bid/priced right and both have/had safety problems.

Welcome to the world of government contracts, big projects tend to be vastly different than what is proposed or agreed too.

Hence I am confused as to why the controversy this time.

Re: Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

#90

Post by mikeash »

vacri wrote: post #51
ChuckFrank wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you need to book a week ahead? And why would you go first/business class? It's a huge project, there's got to be scheduled client side meetings, and those should be scheduled months in advance.

The answer to this question: "And why would you go first/business class?" Is this statement: "It's a huge project" Apart from getting far enough along in your career to be handling huge projects and therefore probably entitled to some cream, it also just doesn't make sense from a business point of view - save a few thousand on a flight, but the extra fatigue makes good decision-making harder. Put another way: who sho…

For me, it would come down to this:

If you're making me fly roundtrip to China in economy once a month, I quit.

I make that trip once every year or two and I hate hate hate the travel part of it. Being there is good, getting there and back is absolutely awful.

So I would say, either pay for business class, give me a raise large enough to cover paying for it myself, or find somebody else.

If you choose the last option, then you'll either have to get astonishingly lucky to find someone who doesn't mind being crammed into an Economy seat so much (does any such person exist?) or you'll eventually find someone desperate enough to put up with it, and what are the odds that such a person is also good at what they do?

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