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Colleges are full of it: Behind the three-decade scheme to raise tuition

salon.com

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Re: Colleges are full of it: Behind the three-decade scheme to raise tuition

#51

Post by cheald »

wooter wrote: post #7
withdavidli wrote: post #4

I'm very opinionated about colleges / tuition. Many people find value in it, or they justify it somehow like they couldn't get the education / experience some other, more affordable, way. My thoughts on the solution is the same for housing increases. Get rid of the government loans. In this situation also make student loans able to discharge by bankruptcy, that way banks will think twice about it as well. The easier…

thank you! Every serious economist that has ever discussed college tuition in the US acknowledges that the issue of guaranteed loans and the ability to declare bankruptcy is a major factor (whether or not they think the status quo is acceptable). However, in this 3 page article it isn't even mentioned once. Instead, he jumps immediately into the trendy topic of inequality. He might as well have just tweeted #1% #weal…

It's Slate - you can pretty much expect "#1% #wealthgap #taxtherich" by default.

Re: Colleges are full of it: Behind the three-decade scheme to raise tuition

#52

Post by cheald »

wcummings wrote: post #8
withdavidli wrote: post #4

I'm very opinionated about colleges / tuition. Many people find value in it, or they justify it somehow like they couldn't get the education / experience some other, more affordable, way. My thoughts on the solution is the same for housing increases. Get rid of the government loans. In this situation also make student loans able to discharge by bankruptcy, that way banks will think twice about it as well. The easier…

What positions require "BA in any field"?

Most anyone that requires a BA in a specific field will accept a BA in a different field if you talk to them.

It's a filtering mechanism that lets them reduce their applicant pool so that they spend less time and money filtering unqualified applicants.

Re: Colleges are full of it: Behind the three-decade scheme to raise tuition

#53

Post by withdavidli »

ebiester wrote: post #41
wcummings wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What positions require "BA in any field"?

In many cases, HR. However, it is often a soft requirement. When comparing two resumes for an entry level position, the college graduate gets the benefit of the doubt. Four years as an assistant manager at Burger King, Subway, and a call center is seen as less valuable than a BA in lit.

Sad, but true statements. These are some extras that I recruited for:

Call Center Analysts, Recruiters, Sales, Medicare Claims Processors.

It's not just requirements either. When I was a Mental Health Assistant I automatically got $1/hr more than non-degree holders.

Re: Colleges are full of it: Behind the three-decade scheme to raise tuition

#54

Post by krisdol »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #15
thetruthishard wrote: post #10

It's a free market -- tuition keeps going up because you, your neighbors, and every other American, is willing to pay for it. Prices will keep going up until people are so strained that they're not willing or able to pay anymore.

But it's not a free market. It's a market artificially inflated by the government via Federal loans, guaranteed pay back to the banks, and debt that's non-dismissable via bankruptcy. Those may or may not better than the alternative, but they sure as hell mean it's not a free market.

Doesn't change the fact that you are always free to go to a cheaper college, or avoid it altogether. Even the college is free to set its own prices. I don't agree that the notion of a "free"-er market would fix this.

Re: Colleges are full of it: Behind the three-decade scheme to raise tuition

#55

Post by Detrus »

aliston wrote: post #9
carsongross wrote: post #3

When it ends it be non-linear: the debt system that we've built our economy and currency on is going to eventually throw up all over itself as we reach Keynes' "long run" and, at that point, experience consumers simply won't have the choice to screw themselves with unproductive debt. EDIT: And, of course, the elephant in the room is the fascist government/corporate cooperation on student debt, which is now larger and…

I'm not sure what you mean by "throw up" but my prediction is that a large portion of these education loans will end up being forgiven. It's housing bubble 2.0 and there's just no other way around it -- millennials leveraged up after being told for years that college was the path to prosperity and simply haven't seen the prosperity. The default rate on student loans is way up because, by and large, we're not making a…

Why would the pyramid scheme implode? Does the college loan industry pose a systemic risk like the banks did? If students fail to become middle class from being forced to pay off debts for stupid crap, someone is still getting paid.

Re: Colleges are full of it: Behind the three-decade scheme to raise tuition

#56

Post by ruswick »

withdavidli wrote: post #4

I'm very opinionated about colleges / tuition. Many people find value in it, or they justify it somehow like they couldn't get the education / experience some other, more affordable, way. My thoughts on the solution is the same for housing increases. Get rid of the government loans. In this situation also make student loans able to discharge by bankruptcy, that way banks will think twice about it as well. The easier…

Yes.

This article makes the ridiculous error of totally ignoring the fact that trivial access to loans and overall exuberance around college creates NO downward pressure on prices. So long as people are willing to pay almost anything and have access to the money to do so, prices will continue to rise. In my opinion, the "spiral" is largely the fault of excess government subsidization and price insensitivity. College is sold as a magic ticket into the upper class, and most people simply will never question this assumption.

Ending the flood of government money will force people to actually question the value of education and, as many people are priced out of the market, will hopefully lead to a rise in more efficient means of education like apprenticeships and cc.

That said, the article MASSIVELY distorts the extent of the spiral because it focuses on sticker price and not on net price. Evidently, the author doesn't realize that sticker prices are so high because colleges price discriminate. Very few people pay anything close to the listed price for college. For public colleges, the average net price is one third of the list price. For privates, the percentage is higher, but that's just because wealthy people are overrepresented at private colleges. Even then, the average net price isn't even close to the list price.

For example, I attend an "elite" private school. Although the sticker price at most of these schools is between $60,000 and $70,000 a year, massive grants are given to students that mitigate most if not all of the cost. I come from a family with slightly above-average income (but still decidedly middle class) and get a $50,000 grant from my school. I have a friend who is also middle class who is being given a full ride.

So, although this article makes a few fair points, it ignores the root of the problem and fundamentally misinterprets the data.

Re: Colleges are full of it: Behind the three-decade scheme to raise tuition

#57

Post by Avshalom »

brazzy wrote: post #50
bullfight wrote: post #31

This has very little to do with some conspiracy between bankers and universities to indebt students and raise massive capital by massively expanding the university far beyond it's means. Deep into this article the author hits on what is really at the core of steep tuition inclines. A rapidly reducing share of university funding coming from state governments turning once public institutions into defacto privatized uni…

> In this chart [2] UWashington lays out in 2013 dollars that total tuition per student has been around 17,000 for 25 years If true, that would make UWashington a shining beacon of frugality and equality (or a really low-end university). That tuition has been massively outpacing inflation is something I have heard from too many different sources to dobut, so the question is: Is UWashington lying in that paper, or is…

"Total tuition" and "tuition charged to student" are two different numbers in this formulation.

"tuition charged to student" has jumped ~9k on top of inflation to compensate for a ~9k decrease in per student state funding.

As to why students don't switch to cheaper universities? Because when it comes time to find that first job academic reputation and professional network matter at least as much and often way way more than having a particular degree.

Re: Colleges are full of it: Behind the three-decade scheme to raise tuition

#59

Post by gone35 »

I wish I could read this, but as with every single Salon.com page, every time I scroll halfway down the body, the entire second half of the article blinks and disappears completely (on Safari on iPad). That, or the page stutters helplessly for several seconds until it crashes the browser.

There better be a special circle of hell for whoever came up with such an abomination. Memo to all of you Web 3.0 trendsetters: Please stop ruining the web [1].

[1] http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/

Re: Colleges are full of it: Behind the three-decade scheme to raise tuition

#60

Post by muzz »

brazzy wrote: post #50
bullfight wrote: post #31

This has very little to do with some conspiracy between bankers and universities to indebt students and raise massive capital by massively expanding the university far beyond it's means. Deep into this article the author hits on what is really at the core of steep tuition inclines. A rapidly reducing share of university funding coming from state governments turning once public institutions into defacto privatized uni…

> In this chart [2] UWashington lays out in 2013 dollars that total tuition per student has been around 17,000 for 25 years If true, that would make UWashington a shining beacon of frugality and equality (or a really low-end university). That tuition has been massively outpacing inflation is something I have heard from too many different sources to dobut, so the question is: Is UWashington lying in that paper, or is…

> That tuition has been massively outpacing inflation is something I have heard from too many different sources to dobut

Sticker-price tuition has. "Tuition revenue" is what students actually pay.

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