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iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

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Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#41
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that? The only good use that comes to mind is MAC filtering, and that's easily defeated anyways.

DHCP with static (reserved) IP addresses comes to mind.

Yes, I do this at home because it resolves the problem of a duplicate IP addresses on the network caused by a device assuming it still has the same IP address (Apple devices seems to do this in particular) while meanwhile another one has taken it.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people, if it explained to them, would be generally uncomfortable with the idea of their movements in a public place being so specifically logged. How would you feel if every time you were in a store, an employee followed you around and took notes on your actions?

Thanks for a constructive response to my question. I'm simply trying to gain a better understanding of the situation. > How would you feel if every time you were in a store, an employee followed you around and took notes on your actions? Most people would feel uneasy/bothered by that. But are those emotions warranted? If we did not get such emotions, would the same scenario be okay? Or are the emotions a consequence…

It's also worth noting that the employee following you around is a visible behavior, while being tracked via Wi-Fi mac addresses is much less intrusive.

It's less visibly intrusive, but the effect is the same. Our instincts aren't very good at reacting to effects we can't see, having evolved in a world where there were no undetectable ways for someone to follow us. Thus, we should consider what our natural reactions would be to a person doing the thing we want to use technology to do, before we create the technology to do it.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#43
post #37

It's pretty clear that Apple is positioning themselves in stark contrast to Google, they want to be the privacy/security company. Internet companies with advertising business models are a dime a dozen so that is a real advantage that differentiates Apple.

> It's pretty clear that Apple is positioning themselves in stark contrast to Google, they want to be the privacy/security company. Internet companies with advertising business models are a dime a dozen so that is a real advantage that differentiates Apple.

Yes, Apple certainly wouldn't develop/release a product whose sole purpose is to track user's physical presence, with the primary use point being able to sell the ability to push 'app usage': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBeacon http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/06/03/apples-ios-8-uses-...

This is about the ability to track handsets, and how Apple wants to corner the market on tracking their own handsets.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#44
post #37

It's pretty clear that Apple is positioning themselves in stark contrast to Google, they want to be the privacy/security company. Internet companies with advertising business models are a dime a dozen so that is a real advantage that differentiates Apple.

It's pretty clear that Apple is positioning themselves in stark contrast to Google, they want to be the privacy/security company. Internet companies with advertising business models are a dime a dozen so that is a real advantage that differentiates Apple. It's difficult to reconcile this claim with their participation in PRISM et. al., previous long-term storage of cell tower locations, ownership of a mobile ad netwo…

> and wanton abuse of the patent system to stifle competition.

Use (or abuse) of the patent system seems entirely orthogonal to privacy/security.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#45
post #37

It's pretty clear that Apple is positioning themselves in stark contrast to Google, they want to be the privacy/security company. Internet companies with advertising business models are a dime a dozen so that is a real advantage that differentiates Apple.

Maybe I'm a little high on design rhetoric right now, but I see this less in terms of Apple being a privacy/security company and more along the lines of Apple being a user-centered design company. No user wants their data shuffled around and sold, so any company that relies on the commodification of its users' data is inherently at odds with its users' needs.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#46
post #6

If this becomes the trend (which in my opinon would be nice) it will become a big problem for companies that specialise in customer tracking e.g. for supermarkets and big department stores. Previously it was quite easy to track a customer, how long he or she spends time in the store, which floors he or she visits, etc. by putting up dummy WiFI-networks that the customers phones find by giving out their MAC-addresses.

Nomi[0] is one startup that does this, tracking locations of customers across participating stores without customers' consent.

It's opt-out for consumers, and in order to opt-out, you must register your MAC address with them[1][2].

I really hope that cycling MAC addresses becomes easier on mobile devices, if not automatic.

[0] http://nomi.com

[1] http://nomi.com/privacy/

[2] Assuming you even know that this service exists (which most consumers don't, because why would the store owner tell them that they're doing this?)

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#47
post #37

It's pretty clear that Apple is positioning themselves in stark contrast to Google, they want to be the privacy/security company. Internet companies with advertising business models are a dime a dozen so that is a real advantage that differentiates Apple.

The FT brought up a similar contrast two weeks ago when discussing Apple and Google's smart home strategies. They speculated that Apple is likely "to emphasise the privacy protections built into its smart home system... Apple considers privacy a key advantage over Google...since Google relies on targeted advertising as its main source of income" [1].

This will be an interesting competition. Google, for openness and transparency; Apple, for control and privacy.

[1] http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/1bef71b8-e433-11e3-a73a-00144...

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. It should be a problem for them.

I'm genuinely curious, how does it being a problem for them benefit you? (I'm assuming you're not saying that out of indifferent malice but because you have personal gains, which is normal.) Can you please elaborate on your point?

Why should I have my movements tracked in a store when I'm not using the resources offered by them? They should feel lucky to have me in their store and provide service, not Orwellian surveillance.

My other beef here is that this is just another way to further dumb down and make retail employment completely mindless.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#49
post #37

It's pretty clear that Apple is positioning themselves in stark contrast to Google, they want to be the privacy/security company. Internet companies with advertising business models are a dime a dozen so that is a real advantage that differentiates Apple.

It's pretty clear that Apple is positioning themselves in stark contrast to Google, they want to be the privacy/security company. Internet companies with advertising business models are a dime a dozen so that is a real advantage that differentiates Apple. It's difficult to reconcile this claim with their participation in PRISM et. al., previous long-term storage of cell tower locations, ownership of a mobile ad netwo…

- We still don't know whether or not the companies on the PRISM slides were participating voluntarily or even knowingly.

- I don't see how constructing a database of cell tower locations violates privacy. They are beacons used for finding the user's location when they have location services turned on.

- iAd is a joke of an ad network, and stores a negligible amount of user data compared to Google's. It's also relatively easy to reset tracking on iAd, for the few apps that do use it.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#50
post #41
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DHCP with static (reserved) IP addresses comes to mind.

Yes, I do this at home because it resolves the problem of a duplicate IP addresses on the network caused by a device assuming it still has the same IP address (Apple devices seems to do this in particular) while meanwhile another one has taken it.

What? IME Apple devices are extremely polite about refusing/deactivating IP addresses that are already in use.
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