iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks • Hacker News Board

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#11

Post by gnu8 » Sun, Jun 08, 2014, 6:43 PM UTC

pmorici wrote: post #7

brunnsbe wrote: post #6

If this becomes the trend (which in my opinon would be nice) it will become a big problem for companies that specialise in customer tracking e.g. for supermarkets and big department stores. Previously it was quite easy to track a customer, how long he or she spends time in the store, which floors he or she visits, etc. by putting up dummy WiFI-networks that the customers phones find by giving out their MAC-addresses.

What stops them from switching to tracking via the hardware address of the cellular radio?

The needed radio hardware would be more of an engineering and procurement challenge for the typical two-bit analytics startup than wifi radios.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#12

Post by 0x0 » Sun, Jun 08, 2014, 6:45 PM UTC

Karunamon wrote: post #9

michaelmior wrote: post #5

I hope it still connects with the real MAC address. Otherwise that could get very problematic.

Why is that? The only good use that comes to mind is MAC filtering, and that's easily defeated anyways.

DHCP with static (reserved) IP addresses comes to mind.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#13

Post by LoganCale » Sun, Jun 08, 2014, 6:50 PM UTC

brunnsbe wrote: post #6

If this becomes the trend (which in my opinon would be nice) it will become a big problem for companies that specialise in customer tracking e.g. for supermarkets and big department stores. Previously it was quite easy to track a customer, how long he or she spends time in the store, which floors he or she visits, etc. by putting up dummy WiFI-networks that the customers phones find by giving out their MAC-addresses.

Good. It should be a problem for them.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#14

Post by bbatsell » Sun, Jun 08, 2014, 6:59 PM UTC

qq66 wrote: post #2

This is Apple forcing the in-store analytics companies like Euclid to use iBeacon rather than WiFi. With the market share numbers the way they are, though, for all but the highest-end stores what Android does matters more.

I feel like this comment might give a mistaken impression, so I'd like to clarify.

Simply rolling out iBeacons does not replicate the copious data that one can currently get by monitoring WiFi probe requests. iBeacons, as designed, broadcast packets at a set rate using Bluetooth LE, and devices scan for those broadcasts. There is no two-way communication, and no probe requests from client devices.

In order for a company to use information from an iBeacon installation, they must have software running on the client scanning for unique iBeacon UUIDs, optionally filtered by "major" and "minor" uint16s to represent separate locations and nodes. Apple limits iOS apps to scanning for 20 UUIDs at any given time.

If the user does not have software that in some way scans for and does something with data from a particular iBeacon UUID, then the implementer gets no information. Thus, iBeacons move control over location and identity data from third parties to users. If a user installs, say, a Target iOS app, it can now scan for an iBeacon UUID that Target generates and can roll out across the country. Only once the user has made that affirmative choice can Target acquire information about that user or device.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#15

Post by therobotking » Sun, Jun 08, 2014, 7:04 PM UTC

There's a great app for rooted Android devices called Pry-fi that generates random MAC addresses while you're not connected to a network.

edit: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.chainfire.p...

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#16

Post by abalone » Sun, Jun 08, 2014, 7:09 PM UTC

qq66 wrote: post #2

This is Apple forcing the in-store analytics companies like Euclid to use iBeacon rather than WiFi. With the market share numbers the way they are, though, for all but the highest-end stores what Android does matters more.

No. iBeacons broadcast their own presence only and cannot be used for surreptitious user tracking.

The only way an iBeacon could be used to track is in concert with an app running on the user's phone that communicates back to the business, letting them know you're near the beacon. In other words the user has to opt in to tracking, which is how it should be.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#17

Post by A_COMPUTER » Sun, Jun 08, 2014, 7:12 PM UTC

MAC address ranges are assigned to device manufacturers, I wonder if they'll only randomize inside the Apple device range or if they'll go outside of it. Analytics companies might start seeing people carrying their sparcstations into the grocery store.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#18

Post by pjc50 » Sun, Jun 08, 2014, 7:21 PM UTC

brunnsbe wrote: post #6

If this becomes the trend (which in my opinon would be nice) it will become a big problem for companies that specialise in customer tracking e.g. for supermarkets and big department stores. Previously it was quite easy to track a customer, how long he or she spends time in the store, which floors he or she visits, etc. by putting up dummy WiFI-networks that the customers phones find by giving out their MAC-addresses.

That's the whole reason to do it. Do Not Track for the physical world.

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#19

Post by shaggyfrog » Sun, Jun 08, 2014, 7:23 PM UTC

pmorici wrote: post #7

brunnsbe wrote: post #6

If this becomes the trend (which in my opinon would be nice) it will become a big problem for companies that specialise in customer tracking e.g. for supermarkets and big department stores. Previously it was quite easy to track a customer, how long he or she spends time in the store, which floors he or she visits, etc. by putting up dummy WiFI-networks that the customers phones find by giving out their MAC-addresses.

What stops them from switching to tracking via the hardware address of the cellular radio?

You can only get that kind of information (e.g. IMEI) if you use IOKit, and you can't submit to the App Store if your app uses IOKit if you're not a part of the MFi (Made for iOS) program, i.e. a hardware manufacturer.

Edit: I'm really getting confused with downvoting on HN. How exactly is this comment poor?

Re: iOS 8 randomises the MAC address while scanning for WiFi networks

#20

Post by mwfunk » Sun, Jun 08, 2014, 7:23 PM UTC

brunnsbe wrote: post #6

If this becomes the trend (which in my opinon would be nice) it will become a big problem for companies that specialise in customer tracking e.g. for supermarkets and big department stores. Previously it was quite easy to track a customer, how long he or she spends time in the store, which floors he or she visits, etc. by putting up dummy WiFI-networks that the customers phones find by giving out their MAC-addresses.

I don't get it, defeating that kind of tracking sounds...awesome? Isn't that the point?

EDIT: sorry, I've had too little coffee today for proper reading comprehension. Clearly you think it'd be nice too and are not empathizing with the snoops and marketers.