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Patent troll on the verge of winning 1% of iPhone revenue

arstechnica.com

41–50 of 127 posts

Re: Patent troll on the verge of winning 1% of iPhone revenue

#41
post #17

I don't know if it's fair to call VirnetX a "patent troll." They're an NPE, but there's no indication that they're abusing the process or trying to get a low-ball settlement just to avoid actually going to court. Furthermore, the patents aren't just something they churned out. The technology in question was developed by SAIC for the CIA. SAIC is a major defense contractor and R&D company: http://www.washingtonpost.co…

If it was developed for the CIA, why aren't the resulting patents owned by the government?

They were probably acquired by VirnetX, like so many NPEs' portfolios are built.

Re: Patent troll on the verge of winning 1% of iPhone revenue

#42
post #17

I don't know if it's fair to call VirnetX a "patent troll." They're an NPE, but there's no indication that they're abusing the process or trying to get a low-ball settlement just to avoid actually going to court. Furthermore, the patents aren't just something they churned out. The technology in question was developed by SAIC for the CIA. SAIC is a major defense contractor and R&D company: http://www.washingtonpost.co…

If it was developed for the CIA, why aren't the resulting patents owned by the government?

Because if Big Government owned those patents then Job Producers wouldn't be able to make so many jobs for Hard-Working Americans.

(speculation)

Re: Patent troll on the verge of winning 1% of iPhone revenue

#43
post #32
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> VirnetX is a company some call a "patent troll" because its only business is now patent enforcement. I believe this viewpoint is shared by a number of people. Specifically, that a litigious NPE is, by colloquial definition, a "patent troll." There is a conversation to be had as to whether the practice is good or bad, or if they are acting more appropriately than their peer group, but I think the term fits in this c…

I don't disagree it's a common viewpoint, I'm just saying it's not very useful to call every NPE a patent troll. It lumps universities together with companies that seek nuisance settlements using the cost of litigation as leverage. In general, the law allows you to sell your cause of action to someone else. For example, many investors who had suits against big banks over mortgage-backed securities sold their causes o…

> I just think it's not very useful to call every NPE a troll.

Simple explanation: if they make their money from suing people, it's a troll.

Re: Patent troll on the verge of winning 1% of iPhone revenue

#44
On a mobile device, so can't research much, but a couple of things:

1) The claims are incredibly broad, and I'm surprised they have held up so far. Many such patents issued back then (it happens much more rarely these days) but even by those standards this is broad. Without indulging too much in the sin of simplifying claims, they basically cover detecting if a server supports secure connections, and if so, establishing a VPN instead of a normal connection. One of the patents covers a DNS server which indicates whether a server supports secure connections.

2) One of the comments on TFA, which is significant if true (would be good if someone could verify):

> If you read through the court docs, the actual royalty imposed was 0.52%. It was Apple's various shenanigans and lies (partial and outright) to the court that prompted additional penalties up to a 0.98% rate.

Similar things have happened in the past, e.g. In i4i, where a Microsoft lawyer was sanctioned for insisting plaintiff was a patent troll. However, in that case the lawyer paid the price rather than the company as a whole. In any case, even 0.52% is incredibly high a single minor feature. I guess the lesson here is clear: don't piss off the court.

Re: Patent troll on the verge of winning 1% of iPhone revenue

#46
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "definition" of a patent troll (per google search): "A patent troll, also called a patent assertion entity, is a person or company who enforces patent rights against accused infringers in an attempt to collect licensing fees, but does not manufacture products or supply services based upon the patents in question." This is always the definition that I understood.

It is a common definition, but a very unfortunate one. See my reply to 'ghayes upthread.

It is an excellent and fortunate definition. If all you do is hold patents, sue people and companies, and do not make anything or sell goods or services, you're a patent troll. And that's exactly the label that should be slapped on this company.

Hopefully we can get all entities that fit the definition of a patent troll abolished. Also fortunately it's inevitable that the patent troll business will be destroyed. It will be made so difficult and unprofitable, few will attempt it. It's merely a matter of how long it takes and much economic damage is caused by the trolls first.

Re: Patent troll on the verge of winning 1% of iPhone revenue

#47
post #43
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree it's a common viewpoint, I'm just saying it's not very useful to call every NPE a patent troll. It lumps universities together with companies that seek nuisance settlements using the cost of litigation as leverage. In general, the law allows you to sell your cause of action to someone else. For example, many investors who had suits against big banks over mortgage-backed securities sold their causes o…

> I just think it's not very useful to call every NPE a troll. Simple explanation: if they make their money from suing people, it's a troll.

Debating the finer points of what constitutes a troll really isn't helpful. It takes the focus off of the real debate -- improving the patent system.

Re: Patent troll on the verge of winning 1% of iPhone revenue

#48

At some point, the patent trolls will force software companies like Apple, Google, and IBM to admit to themselves that software patents themselves have no value and cause more bad than good. So we need more of these patent trolls to win substantially more and more revenue from these companies, until the pain is so great that the big companies do something about it.

In this case I don't think this is a patent troll. They are an NPE but they aren't trying to bully small companies to settle out of court. If they win maybe more people will want to join the dark side and make large corporations pay. Maybe then they will put pressure on Congress to finally pass the bipartisan bill that Leahy and Harry Reid forced to be shelved.

Re: Patent troll on the verge of winning 1% of iPhone revenue

#49
post #24
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "definition" of a patent troll (per google search): "A patent troll, also called a patent assertion entity, is a person or company who enforces patent rights against accused infringers in an attempt to collect licensing fees, but does not manufacture products or supply services based upon the patents in question." This is always the definition that I understood.

So sort of like Universities?

Some universities are absolutely on the list of most aggressive and abusive patent trolls. Some universities are also among those fighting hardest to keep the status quo in place so they can continue to harm the US economy with frivolous patents and milk a broken system.

Re: Patent troll on the verge of winning 1% of iPhone revenue

#50
post #24
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "definition" of a patent troll (per google search): "A patent troll, also called a patent assertion entity, is a person or company who enforces patent rights against accused infringers in an attempt to collect licensing fees, but does not manufacture products or supply services based upon the patents in question." This is always the definition that I understood.

So sort of like Universities?

And independent inventors, and basically anybody that is not a huge corporation and creates something useful.

That popular definition looks too much like political propaganda.

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