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A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

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Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#91

Post by runeks »

mathattack wrote: post #33
harty65 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a related article: "But the eco-system also uses cellular respiration to break down decaying material shed by the plant. In this part of the process, bacteria inside the soil of the bottle garden absorbs the plant's waste oxygen and releasing carbon dioxide which the growing plant can reuse."

Was this a planned hack, or does this naturally occur? My first thought was also, "Where does the CO2 come from?" I suspect this is a very fine balance - if you're off by just a little, one or the other would die. There's not much room for error in a jar.

> I suspect this is a very fine balance - if you're off by just a little, one or the other would die. There's not much room for error in a jar.

Why would all bacteria die if there is less oxygen? I imagine the weakest bacteria would die, thereby increasing the amount of O2 per bacteria, and thus reaching equilibrium again.

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#92

Post by dm2 »

binarycheese wrote: post #6

What if we build a huge sealed bottle garden and send to Mars, can humans live in it!

It's been proposed countless times, there are numerous challenges to overcome and the benefits are hard to convince people of.

There's also the issue that it will cost tens or hundreds of billions of dollars to put people on another planet for an extended period of time.

Elon Musk wants to put thousands of people on mars [1] and he's one of the very few individuals with the resources to actually do it successfully. He has had some highly ambitious goals in the past (rocket ship company, electric car company) and has been wildly successful.

NASA supposedly had some funds appropriated to them recently for missions such as researching Mars colonization, they have had plans and discussions of what would be necessary for basic Mars colonization for decades. [2]

[1] http://www.wired.com/2012/11/elon-musk-mars-colony/

[2] https://www.google.com/search?q=mars+colonization&tbm=isch

https://www.google.com/search?q=plants+on+mars&tbm=isch

http://nextbigfuture.com/2013/12/elon-musk-provides-more-det...

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#94

Post by mynameishere »

phillc73 wrote: post #84
afternooner wrote: post #59

What I'm more amused by is the level of scepticism over an self contained eco-system. In order for any eco-system, either contained or not contained, there has to be much greater tolerances to extreme conditions that we generally acknowledge. In truth, outside of absolute extremes where organic life is simply impossible because or either denaturing or absolute destruction of organic material, life will exist. It's al…

The skepticism is entirely valid when the article in question is from the Daily Mail.

People really hate the daily mail, don't they? It's a tabloid, but realistically you should be skeptical about everything the press puts out. However, when it's a plant in a jar, being skeptical is really just being a crank. It's a plant in a jar. Who cares? Besides, just because more credible papers mention the guy doesn't change the fact that you have to take him for his word.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/science/biology/article3667780...

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#95

Post by dalke »

DanBC wrote: post #70
mistermann wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Biosphere 2 fell apart Wait, what's this? What happened?

Biosphere2 was an experiment to seal humans and plants i to a dome and not open it for some time. Fungus and other pests destroyed some important plants and the eco system collapsed. It had been built in the middle of a desert but urban expansion means the site is reasonably near housing now. There were a bunch of photos of the dusty derelict interiors floating around a few years ago. I kind of wish people would try…

I thought the biggest problem was the concrete. That is, soil microbes produced excess CO2, which would have been okay because the plants should have been able to photosynthesize it to O2, but instead the excess carbon dioxide reacted with the concrete, thus reducing the O2 levels.

Ah, here's a summary of the various things that went wrong, including details about the concrete: http://biology.kenyon.edu/slonc/bio3/2000projects/carroll_d_... .

It doesn't mention fungus, but does talk about other ecosystem problems (the pollinating insects died out, the morning glories took over, etc.).

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#97

Post by Loughla »

asimpletune wrote: post #87
mapt wrote: post #61

So in a symbiotic bacteria/fungi/plant ecosystem, I can understand why CO2, H2O, and O2 might be able to remain in balance. But decomposition produces not only CO2, but CO, CH4, nitrate chemistry... I have trouble understanding why this cycle isn't at least a little bit leaky, since it seems like some of the trace gasses wouldn't automatically have all of the biological, solar, and marine sinks available in nature. I…

The reason it's difficult to understand is because this article is not true.

You don't happen to care to elaborate, do you?

I've looked all over the google and can't find anything that points to this being false.

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#98

Post by ceejayoz »

bronson wrote: post #73
droopyEyelids wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another puzzling factor is the clarity of the glass. When I've seen bottle gardens, they all develop a thick scum from minerals in condensation, algae, and bacterial plaques.

This is a great GREAT point. It would be nice to hear an explanation.

Magnetic scrubbing brushes. They're commonly used in aquariums.

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#99

Post by mabhatter »

philosophus wrote: post #90

Maybe I'm being nit-picky, but it's not "entirely self-sufficient," as it still needs light from an external source.

Earth isn't entirely self sufficient and needs light from an external source....

It's working in the same constraints the origins ed evolved for... Just smaller

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#100

Post by andrewflnr »

murbard2 wrote: post #88
pas wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that leak out from .. basically anything solid?

We're not talking superfluidic Helium here... Glass or BPA should be fine... In that case the envelop is rigid and we might at well just suck out enough air to get buoyancy.

When I was reading about Sterling engines, people talked about H2 leaking straight through the steel walls of the container. I can't find a similar reference for helium, but it's conceivable, to a non-expert anyway. No superfluidity required.
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