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A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

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Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#81

Post by DavidAdams »

DanBC wrote: post #70
mistermann wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Biosphere 2 fell apart Wait, what's this? What happened?

Biosphere2 was an experiment to seal humans and plants i to a dome and not open it for some time. Fungus and other pests destroyed some important plants and the eco system collapsed. It had been built in the middle of a desert but urban expansion means the site is reasonably near housing now. There were a bunch of photos of the dusty derelict interiors floating around a few years ago. I kind of wish people would try…

If you're ever in Tucson, you should go for a tour. It's a fascinating place, and they've repurposed the facility to do a lot of worthwhile and interesting science.

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#82

Post by seszett »

matt-attack wrote: post #78
seszett wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fungus produces CO2 from plant tissues as well, so they are probably an important component of this ecosystem.

Did you just imply Fungi are plants?

Huh... no, what would make you think that?

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#83

Post by nmjohn »

mapt wrote: post #61

So in a symbiotic bacteria/fungi/plant ecosystem, I can understand why CO2, H2O, and O2 might be able to remain in balance. But decomposition produces not only CO2, but CO, CH4, nitrate chemistry... I have trouble understanding why this cycle isn't at least a little bit leaky, since it seems like some of the trace gasses wouldn't automatically have all of the biological, solar, and marine sinks available in nature. I…

It really depends on the bacterial flora present in the container. Bacteria are incredibly diverse, and just as one decomposer may be a methanogen [1], a different species of bacteria present may be a methanotroph [2]. So given the right bacterial "mixture," a self-sustaining CH4 cycle is not unreasonable.

Additionally, CO is a metabolite for some methanogenic bacteria, specifically in production of acetyl CoA [3].

My point is, as long as enough diversity has survived in the ecosystem, it is quite possible that not only CO2/H20/O2 are able to maintain a balance, but _most_ common molecules would be able to remain at nontoxic levels for the plant.

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanogen [2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanotroph [3]: http://textbookofbacteriology.net/metabolism_7.html

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#84

Post by phillc73 »

afternooner wrote: post #59

What I'm more amused by is the level of scepticism over an self contained eco-system. In order for any eco-system, either contained or not contained, there has to be much greater tolerances to extreme conditions that we generally acknowledge. In truth, outside of absolute extremes where organic life is simply impossible because or either denaturing or absolute destruction of organic material, life will exist. It's al…

The skepticism is entirely valid when the article in question is from the Daily Mail.

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#85

Post by e12e »

matt-attack wrote: post #77
afternooner wrote: post #59

What I'm more amused by is the level of scepticism over an self contained eco-system. In order for any eco-system, either contained or not contained, there has to be much greater tolerances to extreme conditions that we generally acknowledge. In truth, outside of absolute extremes where organic life is simply impossible because or either denaturing or absolute destruction of organic material, life will exist. It's al…

> now contains bacteria, fungi, or other organisms Whichever types it contains now , surely it started out with :)

I don't think it is unreasonable to assume some unique mutations in the bacteria? Depends I guess on what (if any) uv and other radiation gets through -- more perhaps than just the number of bacteria generations one would expect in 40 years...

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#86

Post by pas »

mikeash wrote: post #44
wmil wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you could get them to be consistently warm on Earth. But the atmosphere on Venus is so thick you could have a bunch of these floating above the clouds.

Maybe you could replace some of the nitrogen with helium to achieve positive buoyancy without a temperature difference.

Wouldn't that leak out from .. basically anything solid?

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#87

Post by asimpletune »

mapt wrote: post #61

So in a symbiotic bacteria/fungi/plant ecosystem, I can understand why CO2, H2O, and O2 might be able to remain in balance. But decomposition produces not only CO2, but CO, CH4, nitrate chemistry... I have trouble understanding why this cycle isn't at least a little bit leaky, since it seems like some of the trace gasses wouldn't automatically have all of the biological, solar, and marine sinks available in nature. I…

The reason it's difficult to understand is because this article is not true.

Re: A sealed bottle garden thriving after 40 years without fresh air or water

#88

Post by murbard2 »

pas wrote: post #86
mikeash wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you could replace some of the nitrogen with helium to achieve positive buoyancy without a temperature difference.

Wouldn't that leak out from .. basically anything solid?

We're not talking superfluidic Helium here... Glass or BPA should be fine... In that case the envelop is rigid and we might at well just suck out enough air to get buoyancy.
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