The day I left my son in the car • Hacker News Board

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#171

Post by anigbrowl » Wed, Jun 04, 2014, 10:38 PM UTC

mentat wrote: post #159

anigbrowl wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not much help for kids who do have abusive or neglectful parents, is it? They're citizens too and if they're stuck in a dangerous situation they're entitled to the same level of protection as any other member of society. there's a middle ground between the state as inflexible guardian and complete parental sovereignty.

Is this case even remotely discussable as "middle ground"? There was no malice except on the part of the police and the bystander. Your responses to this thread show a deep lack of understanding of practical parenting or human resiliency.

I fail to see what police malice you're finding. The author of the police doesn't criticize them at all.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#172

Post by Gravityloss » Wed, Jun 04, 2014, 10:43 PM UTC

drblast wrote: post #55

noonespecial wrote: post #33

It wasn't so long ago that the "bystander" would simply watch the child for a minute out of common courtesy for the mother. If it looked like it was getting out of hand, then perhaps intervention of some sort might cross their mind. We've become a nation of "I'm Teelllllling..." suitable for nobody but a playground full of 5 year olds. In my opinion, the actions of this "good samaritan" were not motivated from concer…

Right! If the intention were to protect the child, and the child were in actual danger, the bystander would be right there next to the car in case anything went wrong. If anything, the bystander should be prosecuted for the same crime.

But, if you did something, you'd then be prosecuted for some other crime.

Soon you're probably being arrested for breathing from the wrong nostril.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#173

Post by anigbrowl » Wed, Jun 04, 2014, 10:43 PM UTC

darklajid wrote: post #151

anigbrowl wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not much help for kids who do have abusive or neglectful parents, is it? They're citizens too and if they're stuck in a dangerous situation they're entitled to the same level of protection as any other member of society. there's a middle ground between the state as inflexible guardian and complete parental sovereignty.

Fine. Abused kids need help. There, I said it. It's nothing new and not related to the example at hand, but yeah, we found some common ground. The state has laws and agencies to interfere and check (Disclaimer: I've no clue about the US of A here, but I assume it's not too far off from what I know). But that's not related to the action(s) we discuss. Are we missing a part of the picture? Certainly. Is the partial pic…

The police didn't act in a crazy fashion at all. They responded to a complaint, collected evidence, checked it against vehicle owner records. Then they visited the owner of the vehicle, gathered some more information. When an arrest warrant was issued (by the court, not by the police) months later, the police telephoned the author of the article to advise her about it and make arrangements for her to come to court.

I've said repeatedly that I don't think there was any point in bringing a prosecution. since you don't live in the US maybe you don't appreciate that the police and the public prosecutor are completely separate entities. The police didn't do anything abnormal in this case.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#174

Post by anigbrowl » Wed, Jun 04, 2014, 10:52 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #170

anigbrowl wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person was near enough to spot the child and take a photograph, so they could have remained at that distance and call the police if they feel it's necessary, not least to advise the returning parent/guardian that the police were called. In that case the police would probably have arrived and written a ticket or something. Although this would have involved a delay and frustration for the temporarily unattentive pa…

Your firs para: could you imagine the situation where you tell a parent that you called the police because you were worried about their child? That's not an easy conversation. I agree that people should report early and report often; and allow experts to make decisions. Sadly, reporting early and often just swamps people who are already far too busy dealing with children who are being abused, or it dumps reports with…

I agree it's not an easy conversation, but if you think it's important enough to take photographs and call the police about it was important enough to communicate to the person who you have made a potential suspect. In this case it would probably have resulted in a much less traumatic outcome for the author of the story, who at worst might have missed her plane.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#175

Post by IanDrake » Wed, Jun 04, 2014, 10:53 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #168

IanDrake wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've thought long and hard about it... Still makes no difference. For it to make a difference you would have to leap to the conclusion that a woman stole the car, stole a kid (?), and then left the stolen car and the kid in the parking lot, which is now very conspicuous in the US (apparently). That could only make sense if you assumed average moms are child snatching car thieves. I'm told only 2 in 10 mom's snatch ki…

Considering the possibility isn't the same thing as leaping to the conclusion. It's not like the woman was pursued, arrested, and thrown in jail before she ever got near the airport. Rather, the police did the sensible thing and followed the matter up by checking with the owner of the vehicle that was seen in the parking lot. Are you saying that if there's only a 2% chance of something odd being a criminal incident,…

Absolutely, yes.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#176

Post by IanDrake » Wed, Jun 04, 2014, 11:06 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #72

encoderer wrote: post #24

I once left my puppy beagle in the back of my car, windows cracked, while I ran into the restaurant to pick up takeout. I was not in there more than 5 mins. When I got out, started to pull away, and was stopped by a cop who then called animal services. This level of nanny-state-ism drives me slightly crazy. But the real issue for me was the person who decided s/he needed to call the police (the police for this). If i…

To be fair, if I'm a passerby and I see a dog with the window cracked open, I have no idea how long he's been there. Calling the cops makes sense, they're the ones paid to made the judgement call and animal control should have the training to diagnose whether the dog is in distress or not. Whoever made the call chose to err on the side of caution out of humanitarian concern, not to get your goat or ruin your day. Sou…

>I have no idea how long he's been there. Calling the cops makes sense...

So, everyone is assumed to have no common sense, only you have it and thus become the default enforcer despite, admitting, not knowing the situation?

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#177

Post by noonespecial » Wed, Jun 04, 2014, 11:07 PM UTC

Gravityloss wrote: post #172

drblast wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right! If the intention were to protect the child, and the child were in actual danger, the bystander would be right there next to the car in case anything went wrong. If anything, the bystander should be prosecuted for the same crime.

But, if you did something, you'd then be prosecuted for some other crime. Soon you're probably being arrested for breathing from the wrong nostril.

Soon it will just factor out to "you can be arrested at any time". The reason will be unimportant, or rather, will revert to the mean of "didn't like something about you".

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#178

Post by SeanDav » Wed, Jun 04, 2014, 11:07 PM UTC

notdonspaulding wrote: post #123

SeanDav wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it is not safe to remove your kid from the car - that carries risks of its own. There is no safe option - as the article clearly points out. In any case - if you wanted to make the safe decision, why did you put your kid in the car in the first place? Don't you realize how dangerous it is to drive on the roads? Ask yourself - which is safer - Your child spending 5 minutes alone in a car with a window cracked o…

I think you missed the parent commenter's point that the reason they took their kid with them had nothing to do with the actual risk to their child (which they determined to be low), but everything to do with the likelihood of having to deal with other parents in a highly-litigious society (which they determined to be much higher).

Agreed - I saw a later comment by the poster which shows I misinterpreted the comment. My original point still stands though, just not applicable to the poster.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#179

Post by shasta » Wed, Jun 04, 2014, 11:17 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #167

darklajid wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aha! My argument is weak because your neighbor is more trusted than the general public. Read that again. Why? Why would a random parent (taken from a hat that contains all the names of parents in the USA for this experiment) be less trustable than your neighbor? Because you don't know the person? If that is the argument, you could probably call the police all the time, whenever there's a kid around that cries, is sho…

No, your argument is weak because you changed the facts to fit your narrative. Why? Why would a random parent Yet again, the assumption of parental status based on hindsight. The police who answered the 911 call at the shopping center had no way of knowing that the author was the parent of the child in the car, and given that that person did not match the description of the registered vehicle owner, such an assumptio…

I don't think that darklajid can be the one downvoting -- at least not your post replying to him. I suspect you're being downvoted (and not by me) for suggesting that a statewide missing child alert is warranted in response to a kid being spotted alone in a parking lot for a few minutes, which is the kind of thing that people are mad about in this thread.

> In California, there are about 1900 cases of family child abduction and 50 cases of child abduction by a stranger every year. the chances that any given suspicious episode like this will be a child abduction are thus about 1 in 5000 - a remote probability, but of a sufficiently severe nature that it has to be followed up.

Hmm, what "math" did you just do to come up with 1 in 5000?

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#180

Post by jack-r-abbit » Wed, Jun 04, 2014, 11:32 PM UTC

IanDrake wrote: post #166

anigbrowl wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the person in the video doesn't match the description of the registered owner of the car as recorded on their driving license. Think about it.

I've thought long and hard about it... Still makes no difference. For it to make a difference you would have to leap to the conclusion that a woman stole the car, stole a kid (?), and then left the stolen car and the kid in the parking lot, which is now very conspicuous in the US (apparently). That could only make sense if you assumed average moms are child snatching car thieves. I'm told only 2 in 10 mom's snatch ki…

> I'm told only 2 in 10 mom's snatch kids

Wow... because I know like at least 30 moms and none of them have snatched any kids. To cover the odds, there must be people out there that know a lot of baby snatchers. Those people should be calling the police. :)