Live data from Hacker News

Gittip, Year Two

medium.com

191–200 of 218 posts

Re: Gittip, Year Two

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have examples of the trolling you talk of?

I believe he was referring to the top two receivers, Shanley [1] and Ashe[2]. These two are a part of the group of very aggressive feminists; there's no official 'group' to speak of (AFAIK), just a network of people supporting each other. Just to give a few names - Alex Gaynor (member of PSF board), Jacob Kaplan-Moss (yep, Django ex-BDFL), Coda Hale (HN/codahale, see his last messages here on HN [3], they're just abo…

Unless you have anything to actually prove that Shanley, Ashe, whomever else you named in this thread, are "making the whole things worse", please be so kind and keep your hate to yourself.

PS. The only thing the tweets you quoted prove is that Shanley, on top of everything, has a sense of humor.

Re: Gittip, Year Two

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a guy on the margins, I can't say I agree with you.

And as a guy not on the margins, who has been repeatedly educated and informed by these "spoiled princesses", I can't say I agree with him either. I find their work incredibly valuable, so I'd be interested to hear why joaren believes they're setting back their own cause. Well, maybe "interested" is overstating it a bit. "Morbidly curious"?

Right, "educated", on their false statistics? Like Shanley Kane's claim that men have a much easier time getting a 6 figure job out of college... except that unemployment among male college graduates is 50% higher than women's, and women already earn 60% of all college degrees. Let's ignore all that, tell guys to "shut the fuck up and listen", because the patriarchy is propagating systemic inequality.

Or how about Ashe Dryden's ignorance of the Norwegian Gender Paradox which shows that the more gender equal the opportunity, the less equal the outcome? See Richard Lippa of Fullerton's research, which shows this trend applies worldwide with an enormous sample size (i.e. gender is not a societal construct) and shows that the countries where there are more women in IT are the ones where it is a disproportionately lucrative career. I could also point to her hypocritical call to get people fired for starring the satirical Feminist Software Foundation github repo, a tweet so low even she eventually deleted it.

How about Noirin Plunkett's defamation lawsuit, for which she is soliciting money on Gittip? I'll just quote from the legal documents shall I:

> Plaintiff Michael G. Schwern was a leader for gender equity and a campaigner against sexual misconduct in the open-source software community. Complaint ¶2, Schwern Decl. ¶9. When plaintiff and his ex-wife, defendant Nóirín Plunkett, divorced, defendant — for reasons best known to her — chose to salt the earth by deliberately and maliciously spreading the lie that plaintiff had raped defendant. Complaint ¶¶8, 9, 13-23; Schwern Decl. ¶¶2-4, 8, 9; Exhibits 1-3. The criminal justice system rejected defendant’s allegations.

http://ia601204.us.archive.org/19/items/gov.uscourts.ord.115...

Yeah, these are the people who are "educating" the wider tech world with their informed opinions. Also, remember, false rape accusations never happen, no matter what Charles McDowell (1985) and Eugene Kanin (1994) found.

Re: Gittip, Year Two

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree that any of that is a problem. It's not their responsibility to help you do the right thing any more than it's a (again with the theme) QA person's job to teach the programmer proper coding practice. Separation of concerns, if you will.

If we go on with your analogy, QA report would look as follows: "Your piece of shit program burned down the whole fucking server farm, you useless assclown! You belong in jail!", where the real bug was maybe a crash. That's not a good, or even acceptable QA report, I'd say. Look, if you think saying "men are rapists" is not a problem, there's not much to discuss here. Before that point I had my doubts - okay, they're…

Repeated errors have certainly received bug reports of a similar tone. In the context of QA I'd say that saying someone belongs in jail would be seen as humor and sarcasm, so that part doesn't really hold for me.

That said, I really don't see any nuance or indication that you were an ally before someone said "men are rapists," tbh. "Men are rapists" is an extreme statement, but "hateful hypocrites" isn't. Gotcha.

If you're going to "nope out" that easily, maybe you don't have much to offer. I don't know, you just sound like you're lecturing people in absentia. "Admit your mistake!" the principal says. Reading some Foucault might help here.

Re: Gittip, Year Two

#194
post #150
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that wasn't a jab at feminism in tech! Feminism is great and there are some big problems to address in tech. But paying people to stir up heated conflicts and throw Tumblr-style tantrums isn't fixing anything, it is actually misrepresenting women in tech and doing harm to their cause.

http://www.derailingfordummies.com/derail-using-anger/ c.f. "You are hurting your cause by being angry" try to be less of a trope.

Okay, I'll compare "You are hurting your cause by being angry" and "[stirring] up heated conflicts and [throwing] Tumblr-style tantrums."

The former is perfectly fine in many situations, and I don't see many people saying that being angry is inherently counterproductive or bad. The latter is widely accepted to be immature and counterproductive.

Re: Gittip, Year Two

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a guy on the margins, I can't say I agree with you.

And as a guy not on the margins, who has been repeatedly educated and informed by these "spoiled princesses", I can't say I agree with him either. I find their work incredibly valuable, so I'd be interested to hear why joaren believes they're setting back their own cause. Well, maybe "interested" is overstating it a bit. "Morbidly curious"?

> I find their work incredibly valuable, so I'd be interested to hear why joaren believes they're setting back their own cause.

I don't have any data or guesses, but it's conceivable that for every person like yourself who are educated toward their cause, a dozen others are turned away, in which case their actions would hurt the cause.

Re: Gittip, Year Two

#196
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And as a guy not on the margins, who has been repeatedly educated and informed by these "spoiled princesses", I can't say I agree with him either. I find their work incredibly valuable, so I'd be interested to hear why joaren believes they're setting back their own cause. Well, maybe "interested" is overstating it a bit. "Morbidly curious"?

Right, "educated", on their false statistics? Like Shanley Kane's claim that men have a much easier time getting a 6 figure job out of college... except that unemployment among male college graduates is 50% higher than women's, and women already earn 60% of all college degrees. Let's ignore all that, tell guys to "shut the fuck up and listen", because the patriarchy is propagating systemic inequality. Or how about As…

> Like Shanley Kane's claim that men have a much easier time getting a 6 figure job out of college... except that unemployment among male college graduates is 50% higher than women's

"A study of more than 400,000 graduates who left university last summer showed that 9% of males were unemployed six months after quitting compared with just 6% of women.

However, when it came to salaries, those men who had found their way into work were earning higher salaries than women with 32% earning more than £25,000 a year - compared with just 18% of women." [1]

Men are more likely than women to be unemployed or employed full time, while women are more likely than men to work part time at one or more jobs. [2]

Your statement is accurate, but so is hers.

> I'll just quote from the legal documents shall I

You quoted Schwern's accusation, which you seem to think bears more weight than Plunkett's accusation, despite neither being legally substantiated.

[1] http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/male-graduates-mor...

[2] http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2011/2011236.pdf page 7 (document page 17)

Re: Gittip, Year Two

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could I not pay myself $100 per week? Or could I not pay you $100 per week if you pay me $100 per week? Seems the voting with money system can easily be gamed.

Yes, sure, whatever, who cares? Irrelevant to a conversation about who has a "right" to use the platform, and for what purposes.

Nobody is denying anyone the right to use the platform.

Re: Gittip, Year Two

#198

It seems to me that Gittip is making the same mistake that Gnu/FSF have made: the most effective change comes one step at a time. Ostensibly, the primary goal of Gittip is to create an economy of Open Source work. But instead of focusing on this goal, they are also (from the article): * running a non-traditional "open" company * shunning investors not willing to work with an "open" company * only doing "open" intervi…

I don't think any of these are problems.

When I want to start using a system like this, as I'm sure everyone does, I spend a little bit of time reading the about pages and working out if this is a company whose values align with my own.

I was very excited about Flattr, but then I read the small print and decided that they weren't for me.

When I found gittip, I read the details and thought all of the aspects are laudable. I gittip an extremely small amount, but will continue to do so and will gradually increase it as I become aware of more projects that deserve my support on it.

The vision to create a new kind of "open" company is interesting in itself and is directly related to many of the reasons that I feel motivated to use the service.

Re: Gittip, Year Two

#199
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And as a guy not on the margins, who has been repeatedly educated and informed by these "spoiled princesses", I can't say I agree with him either. I find their work incredibly valuable, so I'd be interested to hear why joaren believes they're setting back their own cause. Well, maybe "interested" is overstating it a bit. "Morbidly curious"?

Right, "educated", on their false statistics? Like Shanley Kane's claim that men have a much easier time getting a 6 figure job out of college... except that unemployment among male college graduates is 50% higher than women's, and women already earn 60% of all college degrees. Let's ignore all that, tell guys to "shut the fuck up and listen", because the patriarchy is propagating systemic inequality. Or how about As…

I have no time for someone who claims to be quoting "the legal documents" when he is in fact parroting one side's case in a domestic violence dispute to which he is not a party. Thanks for clarifying what you are, though; that's useful, albeit hardly surprising.

Re: Gittip, Year Two

#200
post #96

I think gittip had the potential to become something great and yea, sure, you've had a substantial increase in traffic since last year but an increase in traffic does not mean an increase in quality. I've been looking over at gittip for a while now and saw it was doing good things for good open source developers but your homepage shows the problem. The top 2 money recipients are 2 feminists which have never seen a li…

> The top 2 money recipients are 2 feminists which have never seen a line of code in their lives (one of them doesn't even have a github account!).

That is both irrelevant and entirely incorrect. Both have seen and worked with code and both have GitHub accounts. Their relationship to code has nothing to do with the fact that people feel it's worthwhile to donate money to the work they contribute to their chosen communities.

Post reply on HN