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The day I left my son in the car

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Re: The day I left my son in the car

#141

Post by notdonspaulding »

tptacek wrote: post #121
SeanDav wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask yourself: How many kids are killed annually by being left alone in a car, and how many kids are killed annually in car accidents? I have no doubt that the number killed in car accidents is vastly higher. So which is the biggest sin? Which should be the crime?

I have no idea what your point is here. More kids are killed annually in car accidents than are killed by alligator attacks, too.

The point is that you don't flag down cops for parents driving their children down the road, which is the bigger risk to their safety.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#142

Post by awda »

tptacek wrote: post #89
awda wrote: post #40

30-40 a year, mostly from suffocation sounds almost negligible. It seems fine if you crack the window and they know how to get out.

With a four year old, the prospect that they might get out of the car is one of the bigger worries you should have. A four year old walking alone through a parking lot is incredibly dangerous.

Probably something I should learn more about if I ever have a four year-old.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#143

Post by crystalmace »

revelation wrote: post #60
DanBC wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent runs into store for few minutes, trips and knocks head becoming unconcious / has stroke / has heart attack / etc etc - child dies. Having said that, This story is a really good example of how tough it is for some parents and how hostile society is to parenting.

How hostile society is to parenting? Did I read that right? Parents have free reign to brainwash their kids into some religious cult. Then theres the whole homeschooling thing - yes, enlightened HN readers will protest that they are able to give their kids a better education than the crappy public school system could, but lets face it, home schooling is as much a cover for the many nutjobs out there that don't want t…

While I recognize that homeschooling is done by some because of their religious beliefs, and yes, some of those beliefs are pretty unusual, I would like to remind you that homeschooling is actually not 100% a cover for the nutjobs out there. I was homeschooled, and I'm now graduated highschool at 16. Homeschooling is a great way to avoid the mess and poor education that is public school, and in my experience with other homeschoolers, there aren't as many nutjobs as you seem to think. I apologize if I missed the point of what you were saying, but I wished to present an alternative view of homeschooling.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#144

Post by tptacek »

notdonspaulding wrote: post #141
tptacek wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what your point is here. More kids are killed annually in car accidents than are killed by alligator attacks, too.

The point is that you don't flag down cops for parents driving their children down the road , which is the bigger risk to their safety.

That's not true, but the fact that you think it's true is one of the reasons I find this article so off-putting, because the article tries its hardest to set up that bogus comparison. I want to say something here about the base rate fallacy, but I'm too tired and impatient to figure out how to articulate it.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#146

Post by skwirl »

tptacek wrote: post #115
skwirl wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't have your child out of your sight for a single instant without a chance of them getting hurt. When you are asleep they could easily leave the house and get run over in the street. I'm generally a fan of your comments but this time I don't see your point at all.

And I am not advocating for a parenting strategy that demands total attention to your children 60 minutes out of 24 hours a day. I'm simply saying that one time you can't let a child out of your sight is when they're in a parking lot. Let's make this simpler: would you leave your four year old alone in a parked car for 5 minutes while you ran into a store?

No, because of the risk of someone calling the police. And I don't have children and stories like this weigh against any decision to have children. We're to the point of arresting parents for not parenting the way the media wants them to, logic and rational risk assessment be damned. Do you really think you were never left in the car alone as a child?

The author was right - the most irresponsible thing she did that day was to drive with her child in the car.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#147

Post by imgabe »

tptacek wrote: post #132
imgabe wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't find that it advocates leaving toddlers alone in parked cars at all. She states in multiple places that it was a bad decision. What it does advocate is that this shouldn't require legal action. The response in terms of police manpower and court time is wildly out of proportion to the risk.

Skip forward to the part where she's conversing with her attorney. The attorney sums the situation up as a lapse in judgement. She responds with anger towards the bystander who called her child --- alone in a car --- in to the police. Or reread the section where she interviews Skenazy. The Skenazy section overtly argues that leaving kids alone in parked cars is a negligible risk. No, think you're wrong. I think this…

In all the articles you linked above, not one involved a child being left alone in a car and escaping, then getting hit in the parking lot. So, yes, until there's a documented case of that actually happening I would consider the risk to be negligible.

However, if you arrest the parent, saddle them with months of legal fees, potentially take their child away and put them into a foster care system, that's not without risks to the child as well. It's not like having your parents impoverished and potentially put in jail does wonders for a child's future either. That has a far higher probability of happening than your so far completely hypothetical scenario of the child escaping from the car in five minutes and wandering around the parking lot until getting hit.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#148

Post by tzs »

encoderer wrote: post #24

I once left my puppy beagle in the back of my car, windows cracked, while I ran into the restaurant to pick up takeout. I was not in there more than 5 mins. When I got out, started to pull away, and was stopped by a cop who then called animal services. This level of nanny-state-ism drives me slightly crazy. But the real issue for me was the person who decided s/he needed to call the police (the police for this). If i…

I've read of people in your situation who leave a note that says what time they left, what time they will be back, and where to find them or how to contact them if the dog needs aid before they get back.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#149

Post by tptacek »

imgabe wrote: post #147
tptacek wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skip forward to the part where she's conversing with her attorney. The attorney sums the situation up as a lapse in judgement. She responds with anger towards the bystander who called her child --- alone in a car --- in to the police. Or reread the section where she interviews Skenazy. The Skenazy section overtly argues that leaving kids alone in parked cars is a negligible risk. No, think you're wrong. I think this…

In all the articles you linked above, not one involved a child being left alone in a car and escaping, then getting hit in the parking lot. So, yes, until there's a documented case of that actually happening I would consider the risk to be negligible. However, if you arrest the parent, saddle them with months of legal fees, potentially take their child away and put them into a foster care system, that's not without r…

That's because parents don't generally leave four year olds alone in cars, not because four year olds left alone in cars generally do just fine.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#150

Post by jack-r-abbit »

anigbrowl wrote: post #131
darklajid wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with lots of things: The details matter. Leaving a kid in a car shouldn't be an offense. Not returning ~soon~ might be and might be a reason to call the cops/force the car open. Parents can damage/kill their kids in uncountable ways. Most don't and really try to avoid that. Trying to watch over their shoulder isn't 'Good citizenship', it's crazy and a witch hunt. You start to be labeled as child abuser if your kid…

- before cops arrived, kid was gone and obviously safe with the parent The second half of your premise contains two completely unwarranted assumptions. How exactly were the police supposed to know the now-departed child was a) safe and b) with his parent? Recall that the Mom who wrote the piece was driving a vehicle that wasn't registered to her and so therefore didn't match the description on the registered owners'…

The article appears to indicate that the person capturing video saw the lady leave and return. It is not clear if the video was rolling the entire time but certainly as the video-taker was giving the video to the police, they may have mentioned that the same person who left the car also returned. I don't see why the police would be more worried about an abduction in this situation than in any other "person with child" situation.
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