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The day I left my son in the car

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Re: The day I left my son in the car

#51
post #42

As a sanity check, here is the law in California (which, I assume, is relatively restrictive, since it's California...): It is illegal to leave a 6 years old or younger unattended in a motor vehicle when: There are conditions that present a significant risk to the child's health or safety. Example: Leaving a child in a closed car on a very hot day. The vehicle's engine is running, the keys are in the ignition, or bot…

Well, the article states that it wasn't illegal wherever that took place either. Somehow 'not illegal' is considered 'a grey area' though.. Which makes it even scarier. Excerpt for the people that just see your comment below (I = mother, He = lawyer):

“I don’t get it,” I said to the lawyer. “Contributing to the delinquency of a minor? That makes no sense. It sounds like I was buying him beer.”

He laughed. He told me he understood my confusion about the charge, but that it wasn’t that unusual. A few years before, the state had tried to pass an ordinance that would make it a misdemeanor to leave a child under 6 alone in a vehicle if the conditions within the vehicle or in the immediate vicinity of the vehicle presented a risk to the health or safety of the child. The penalty for a first offense would be a $100 civil penalty, in other words, a ticket. But the legislation didn’t pass, and so instead, the act of leaving a kid in a car would continue to fall into a legal gray area. The lawyer explained that the crime of contributing to the delinquency of a minor included “rendering a minor in need of services.” So, for example, he said, “If you’d left him there and not come back, someone from social services would have needed to come, bring him in, make sure he was safe and such.”

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#52
post #2

I'd be interested in hearing non-US perspectives on this. Is it acceptable elsewhere to leave your small child alone in the car for 5 minutes while you get something from a store? Would you fear for the child's safety, of legal action, or neither? Is the US leading the way criminalizing parents who do such things, or are there other countries that have been doing this for years?

its natural selection

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#53
post #2

I'd be interested in hearing non-US perspectives on this. Is it acceptable elsewhere to leave your small child alone in the car for 5 minutes while you get something from a store? Would you fear for the child's safety, of legal action, or neither? Is the US leading the way criminalizing parents who do such things, or are there other countries that have been doing this for years?

As a German and father of a 22 month old child, I can't understand how unbelievable dumb this story is. I couldn't even finish reading it, because all this stuff is so cringeworthy.

While I understand that bad things can happen if you leave a child for a long time alone in a car, I can't understand the bystander was calling the police but couldn't open his mouth to actually say anything to the mom. And how come somebody is criminalized when there was no victim at all?

Also, while I understand children loves their electronics, please try to read a book to your kids once in a while.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#54
post #9
post #2

I'd be interested in hearing non-US perspectives on this. Is it acceptable elsewhere to leave your small child alone in the car for 5 minutes while you get something from a store? Would you fear for the child's safety, of legal action, or neither? Is the US leading the way criminalizing parents who do such things, or are there other countries that have been doing this for years?

When I got to the bit about being arrested I was completely baffled... there's a law against this? I'm from the UK and as a child was left in the car for short periods, which is almost certainly commonplace. I'm simply stunned that parents can be prosecuted for this. Another wtf America moment.

Actually, as the article explained there is NOT a law against leaving your kids in the car. Such a law was proposed and the legislature refused to pass it.

Instead, the prosecutor decided to charge her with "contributing to the delinquency of a minor" which is a broad catch-all category for doing things that might harm a child. She was not found guilty of this crime either. Instead, her lawyer advised her to agree to punishment for the crime because if it went to trial there was a CHANCE that she would lose custody of her children.

The problem here is not in the law nor in the outcome of a court case. The problem lies in the structure of the legal system. Prosecutors wield enormous power by virtue of their ability to decide whom to charge and for what. The penalties for losing are so great that nearly all (around 95%) cases are settled rather than contested before a judge or jury.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#55

It wasn't so long ago that the "bystander" would simply watch the child for a minute out of common courtesy for the mother. If it looked like it was getting out of hand, then perhaps intervention of some sort might cross their mind. We've become a nation of "I'm Teelllllling..." suitable for nobody but a playground full of 5 year olds. In my opinion, the actions of this "good samaritan" were not motivated from concer…

Right! If the intention were to protect the child, and the child were in actual danger, the bystander would be right there next to the car in case anything went wrong.

If anything, the bystander should be prosecuted for the same crime.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#56
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the father became unconscious, had a stroke or a heart attack, etc. while driving or doing anything with the child away from other people, the child could die.

Yes, but people would know the child was there. If someone fall down unconscious in the middle of the supermarket nobody knows which car they arrived in, or even for sure that they arrived in a car, and nobody knows about the unattended child. That's a different kind of risk. On the other hand, for the person in the parking lot to film the child in the car and call police, but not make any contact with the child or w…

Approaching a young child who has been left alone in a car is foolish in today's paranoic society.

Also, the returning parent is unlikely to be grateful to the comments of "I was just making sure your left alone child was not dying".

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#57
post #32
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent runs into store for few minutes, trips and knocks head becoming unconcious / has stroke / has heart attack / etc etc - child dies. Having said that, This story is a really good example of how tough it is for some parents and how hostile society is to parenting.

If the father became unconscious, had a stroke or a heart attack, etc. while driving or doing anything with the child away from other people, the child could die.

This can happen when you're home alone with your children too. Should we require night chaperones? What's the acceptable level of present adult redundancy?

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#58
post #42

As a sanity check, here is the law in California (which, I assume, is relatively restrictive, since it's California...): It is illegal to leave a 6 years old or younger unattended in a motor vehicle when: There are conditions that present a significant risk to the child's health or safety. Example: Leaving a child in a closed car on a very hot day. The vehicle's engine is running, the keys are in the ignition, or bot…

Well, the article states that it wasn't illegal wherever that took place either. Somehow 'not illegal' is considered 'a grey area' though.. Which makes it even scarier. Excerpt for the people that just see your comment below (I = mother, He = lawyer): “I don’t get it,” I said to the lawyer. “Contributing to the delinquency of a minor? That makes no sense. It sounds like I was buying him beer.” He laughed. He told me…

> Well, the article states that it wasn't illegal wherever that took place either. Somehow 'not illegal' is considered 'a grey area' though

It's my observation that anything that is "not illegal" in the US now means "We'll find a creative way to stop you doing it".

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#59
post #29
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very big difference is that child-bakes-in-the-car heat deaths are not because Dad left the kids in the car while he ran in to the store for a few minutes, but because Dad forgot the kid was in the car at all. http://www.parenting.com/article/tragedy-in-the-backseat-hot...

Parent runs into store for few minutes, trips and knocks head becoming unconcious / has stroke / has heart attack / etc etc - child dies. Having said that, This story is a really good example of how tough it is for some parents and how hostile society is to parenting.

Parent is driving the car and has a heart attack/stroke/etc. Car crashes and child dies. I guess we better make it illegal for parents to drive cars with kids in them.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#60
post #29
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very big difference is that child-bakes-in-the-car heat deaths are not because Dad left the kids in the car while he ran in to the store for a few minutes, but because Dad forgot the kid was in the car at all. http://www.parenting.com/article/tragedy-in-the-backseat-hot...

Parent runs into store for few minutes, trips and knocks head becoming unconcious / has stroke / has heart attack / etc etc - child dies. Having said that, This story is a really good example of how tough it is for some parents and how hostile society is to parenting.

How hostile society is to parenting? Did I read that right? Parents have free reign to brainwash their kids into some religious cult. Then theres the whole homeschooling thing - yes, enlightened HN readers will protest that they are able to give their kids a better education than the crappy public school system could, but lets face it, home schooling is as much a cover for the many nutjobs out there that don't want the scientific method taught in school. Lets not start on vaccines.

Basically, until you are 18, you belong to your parents and have zero rights, treated as a child by society. It's funny how we all forget this once we turn into adults.

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