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(Why) I quit Hacker News (2010)

mattmaroon.com

61–70 of 111 posts

Re: (Why) I quit Hacker News (2010)

#61
In some ways growth has mitigated many of the effects listed in the article relative to the HN 2010.

1. Monolithic dominance of the front page by a single story appear to have been mitigated from some combination of algorithmic and human moderation. But it's still a problem because the threshold for the front page is higher and it feels as though fewer of those weird corner case articles have staying power. On the other hand, as always they tend to persist between 31-120 for several days. Today's abundance of Apple articles is nothing. In 2010 the whole front page would be covered with Apple articles every time a laptop got a CPU upgrade.

2. I'm biased, voting to express disagreement is just part of the franchise. A downvote to express it is often better than an 'I am appalled/upset/angry/argumentative' rebuttal. A downvote is just editorial feedback on the aesthetics of a comment. It comes from the audience of readers. It means the comment had an effect. If it wasn't the effect I wanted, then the problem was my writing - it's the only thing I control.

3. With growth, brand tribalism has diminished on HN. The center of brand consensus has largely moved away from Apple. If there is a halo company for which critical comments are seen as blasphemous on HN, at this point it's Google. I'm not of the opinion that the responses to anti-googlism on HN is organic rather than the effect of a social media team.

In the past four years, HN has clearly become more circumspect in regard to MicroSoft. The no-value cliches from the 80's and 90's are more likely to be as no-value cliches than a few years ago. HN is vastly more global, and Microsoft bashing is a sport originating in Silicon Valley. They're the company from Seattle, bootstrapped without Venture Capital to produce the richest founder ever. It's not a profitable model for Valley power brokers.

4. Everybody is out of touch. I can't say if there is more empathy on HN than before because I tend to avoid comment pages where I expect the expressions lacking empathy to dominate. On the other hand, if there is more it may be the result of highly focused business people becoming a lower proportion of HN's commenters. I want to be clear that the high levels of focus required to build a business are not inherently wrong. Building a business can be a distraction from broadly thinking about humanity. The converse is likewise true.

5. I should be doing something other than writing this. Some things haven't changed.

6. On average, this has never been the case. The comments on most blogs suck. A long thoughtful post is likely to draw 'Your mother' as a response. It's a high effort for low reward activity. The same is true for the site moderator. The cost of moving some comments to HN has always been outweighed by the otherwise unwritten thoughtful comments the are written for HN. HN consistently provides a larger audience interested in thoughtful comments and a pool of writers more likely to produce them. HN grows the market for high quality comments.

7. As a place to write, HN provides a large high quality readership. My blog doesn't, because it's about as good as my comments. That's typical for most blogs. That hasn't changed. I like the idea of going from blogging to writing essays though. That's really what good blog posts are.

HN is as good a place as any to post a numbered list of remarks.

Re: (Why) I quit Hacker News (2010)

#62

In an ideal community people would up-vote arguments for adding value to the conversation and down-vote only for detracting. I’d much rather see something well-reasoned and well-stated that I disagree with than just another guy confirming my own opinion about something. That puts me square in the minority on Hacker News and, to be fair, probably just about any site with voting. Yet it seems that stating that you wish…

The majority of the people who comment on voting systems is a much smaller number than the majority of people who use a voting system.

Re: (Why) I quit Hacker News (2010)

#63
post #25

I agree with most of his points. I stopped reading Slashdot because I didn't like how the voting affected my interaction with the site, and I went cold turkey on Reddit and haven't been back (or even missed it) for maybe a year now. Maybe I should ditch my HN account too. Other than as an experiment in how to craft an inoffensive comment that will be accepted by the tiny subset of humanity who lurk here, it doesn't r…

well the OP mentioned changing the password to long unrecoverable string.

How did he manage to come back? did he store pwd somewhere? pull strings at YC??

How?

Re: (Why) I quit Hacker News (2010)

#64
post #55

Adding a downvote seems potentially dangerous to me. Sure a lot of "groupthink" articles rise to the top now, but a downvote means that the same vocal minority could suppress stories that don't fit into their ideology. Definitely a double edged sword

IMO downvotes needs to take effect only after a set number. Say 3 or 5 downvotes or so.

at 3 or 5 downvotes, there is a signal the comment is low value.

Re: (Why) I quit Hacker News (2010)

#65
My main issue with Hacker News at the moment is that it is NOT NEWS! An article from 2010 about quitting hn is not news. I used to kid myself that I go here "to keep up-to-date" or find out what is happening. I used to think this was a valid news source but it is not. It's got some interesting articles that suck up my time but I've stopped kidding myself that it is news.

Re: (Why) I quit Hacker News (2010)

#66
post #13

Matt's reasons: 1. Lack of down-vote means vocal minorities are disproportionately represented. 2. Votes on comments are used to express agreement or disagreement rather than value, perhaps because many people simply cannot see the difference between the two. 3. The community is full of ideologues to the point where the comments are most often just predictable talking points being regurgitated ad nauseum. 4. The comm…

> 1. Lack of down-vote means vocal minorities are disproportionately represented. Allow downvotes for submissions. > 2. Votes on comments are used to express agreement or disagreement rather than value, perhaps because many people simply cannot see the difference between the two. Downvoter has to write a short explanation of the downvote. He's warned that admins can ban people who downvote just because they disagree.…

Make the site faster, it's really slow.

That doesn't avoid procrastinating. Besides, HN is fast, many linked sites are slow and bloated...

Re: (Why) I quit Hacker News (2010)

#67

In some ways growth has mitigated many of the effects listed in the article relative to the HN 2010. 1. Monolithic dominance of the front page by a single story appear to have been mitigated from some combination of algorithmic and human moderation. But it's still a problem because the threshold for the front page is higher and it feels as though fewer of those weird corner case articles have staying power. On the ot…

I've never noticed abundance of Apple articles, until this morning. Out of 13 top articles over half of them were leading to apple.com. Some feature to filter out unwanted links might be useful here.

On the topic of voting, I've been thinking about two parallel scores - one could be traditional up/down vote, which, alas also traditionally, signifies agreeing/disagreeing; the second could be valuable/not valuable score. Perhaps by splitting these into two distinct parts would allow to improve accuracy in scoring. Represent up/down vote with some clear graphics, so as to give that feeling of accomplishment when you press the big red downvote button and hopefully you won't feel the need to seek some smaller "not valuable" link below.

Re: (Why) I quit Hacker News (2010)

#68
I HAVE to take a break from Hacker News whenever some hot button story like Ed Snowden or Heartbleed is dominating the entire front page. I don't need to see a dozen blogger's opinions on simple news items like that. If I want thorough analysis of those types of important issues, I'm definitely not looking to the Hacker News crowd to source them. Prog blogs are awful. And so is some amateur libertarian paranoid's half-baked, uninformed opinion on complicated issues like NSA surveillance programs.
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