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Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#151

Post by vidarh »

crazy1van wrote: post #135
codehotter wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to know a lot about this and it's something I've always been interested in: When laws were passed to mandate 8 hour work days, what % of companies had 8 hour work days already? 10%? 20%? 80%? Nowadays we know that total productivity is higher if you have 8 hour work days, even though you work less total hours, because your productivity per hour is much higher. Was something like this known at the time? Or wa…

"Nowadays we know that total productivity is higher if you have 8 hour work days," We know ? Surely on a planet with 7 billion people, some of them can maintain their work efficiency for more than 8 hours. What about the Steve Jobs and John Carmack's of the world? I don't see them being 9-5 people.

It is implicit that when we are talking about regulation of the work day, we are concerned with averages.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#152

Post by mdemare »

adventured wrote: post #127
furyg3 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... this is slightly disingenuous. The WSJ article specifically mentions that this relates to secured debt (mortgages), not credit card debt. Interest rates are fully tax deductible in the Netherlands, which incentivizes higher mortgage debt than in many other countries. Many people own homes, and the ones that do borrow the majority of the market value when buying. Housing prices did fall recently (and are now h…

First of all, household debt is household debt, it is not disingenuous, it's exactly what it sounds like. And it obviously does not only include mortgage debt. Second, who said anything about the United States? Why is that always the knee-jerk reaction? Mortgage debt is included in the US calculation anyway, so what's the point exactly? The US doesn't get a special calculation for household debt that is different fro…

It does by no means follow that the current level of household debt must lead to any dramatic changes.

A high household debt implies that there's relatively less money left over for domestic consumption, compared to similar countries with less debt. Low domestic consumption is a drag on employment. That means that new jobs must come from the export sector, but with the current worldwide stagnation, that does not look hopeful.

I fear another decade of very slow growth, not a sudden collapse: unemployment is stable, mortgage requirements have been fairly strict, so people who can pay their mortgage this month, can pay it the next.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#153

Post by klunger »

mkempe wrote: post #94
klunger wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had the same experience in Norway. Maybe it is a Northern European thing? Edited: Scandinavian -> Norther Europe

The Netherlands are not part of Scandinavia.

Right you are. There is so much cultural cross-over that I forget that sometimes.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#154

Post by capisce »

crazy1van wrote: post #140

So what is the optimal work day for productivity? Many folks here believe it's a (proven?) fact that less than 40 is actually more productive. However, surely 40 is more productive than 0. So, what is the magic number? Personally, I don't think this is that simple. Heck, humans just aren't that simple. I think some people and some professions are more productive above 40 and others are more productive under 40. That'…

Productivity is not the only concern, individual preference should also be accounted for. Someone might want to sacrifice 10 hours a week for 20 % less pay for instance (productivity vs hours worked is more than likely not linear). People should be more free to negotiate such arrangements. Basic income could give them the leverage needed to have a stronger negotiating position - right now employers usually have a way stronger hand.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#155

Post by mdemare »

bowlofpetunias wrote: post #4

And once again the Netherlands shows up on the bottom of that list, so I'll say it once more: we have a high participation of women in the work force, but most of those only work part-time, often in stereotypically "women's jobs" (receptionist, secretary, kindergarten). Makes the stats look much more progressive than reality, even though 32/36 hour work weeks are common.

Yes, IIRC, 51% of Dutch women make less than 70% of the minimum wage.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#156

Post by capisce »

terranstyler wrote: post #109

It is not the duty of the lawmaker but of the contracting parties (= employer and employee) to define the amount of work hours per day. There are many variables in the process: - Demand for money of the employee (poor father of five vs. rich single) - Demand for work of the employer (company needs a helping hand vs company needs to recruit a new team) - Scale effect of product (does one additional hour or man lead to…

Usually the employee has a much weaker negotiating position due to the threat of finding himself without a job. Basic income could lead to a "freer" and thus more efficient job market (free markets are efficient, right?).

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#157

Post by silverbax88 »

skrause wrote: post #7

If someone gave me the chance of a 30-hour work week, I would rather work 4 days of 7,5 hours than 5 days of 6 hours. Just the hassle of getting up early, dressing up for work, commuting etc. isn't really worth it when I'm only going to work 6 hours anyway. I'd rather take an extra day off.

I agree with you, but living in the U.S., I'd take four 10 hour days over five 8 hour days for the same reasons. Working for someone else pretty much takes up the whole day.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#158

Post by fetbaffe »

mkempe wrote: post #142
fetbaffe wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However not the case in Göteborg.

The Swedish average commute is under 25 minutes (excluding the top 5% who travel an hour or more). [1] My friends' commute in Stockholm includes the walk to drop off kids at the local school. Is Göteborg worse than the rest of the country? [1] http://jamda.ub.gu.se/handle/1/738

It's not hours that can be the case as in other countries, but I would not describe it as 2 minutes either. 25 minutes sounds reasonable.

Of course it's depends how lucky you are. When I lived in Stockholm for a short while, I had an 50 minutes commute from the outer parts of Stockholm (still within city limits) to the city, first by buss then subway.

In Göteborg, if you need to pass Göta älv (Göta river) in rush hour, good luck with that. It is the main bottleneck in Göteborg with only two bridges and one tunnel, all of the jammed.

Sure buses have their own lane so that runs faster, but the nightmarish slow tram is just painful, half the speed of a subway.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#159

Post by marincounty »

San Francsico local 6 proposed a 10hr/4 day work week; Sat- Mon off. The electricians voted it down. My dad never understood why. As a kid, neither did I understand why anyone wouldn't want hours like this. By the way, getting to the job site is 60% of the hassle, the rest is boring construction. I honestly think all jobs would benefit from just getting rid of Mondays? Two days off is just not enough time; unless you have no life and live through your job. The problem is many of us do not even remotely like our job, or our felllow workers. We hate coming in and seeing the the same people--especially the one's who haven't realized this is no dress rehearsal. We were born and we die--it's a simple equation. A great line I heard out of a movie, 'Give me a hair cut that says I go to a job I hate, only to adorn my spoild wife with consumer crap, and keep my ungrateful kids adorned in expensive jeans for the next thirty years; until I get the courage to blow my head off with a shotgun.' Extreme statement, but rang true with me. Oh yea, to every girlfriend who claimed to love their job-- Great--get your MBA. Put on the pants suit. Climb the ladder. It's my turn to stay home and take care of the spawn. Me and the kids want electronic toys. It's O.K. if your working late, or go to china for Apple. Just send us the checks! We'll be fine. (In all honestly, I think people(especially Americans) want what they can't have, and don't know when they are offered a good deal.)

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#160

Post by vidarh »

erikb wrote: post #91

Germany seems to be unrealistically low in the diagram. It is very untypical for people here to work less than 40 hours per week and lunch hour is not included in the work time (means you actually stay 45 hours at work in a usual contract).

The article points out that Germany is pulled down by a lot of people working part-time jobs.
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