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HomeKit

developer.apple.com

111–120 of 146 posts

Re: HomeKit

#111
post #34

Dear Apple, please for the love of god and the good of everyone, get together with Google and iron out a common protocol for this stuff. Don't make this one of your competitive technologies designed to fragment the world into Apple and not-Apple. Home automation is just dying to take off and there's a pile of gold for everyone if you just show a tiny bit of cooperation to get it started ... And you can all still sue…

I'm looking forward to things like the Almond+, which will use Z-Wave. I don't hold out hope for Apple opening anything up after the Darwin components started disappearing and after the broken FaceTime promise.

Darwin is fair enough, but FaceTime was due to a patent held by another company. The fight cost them something like $500 million but in the end there's nothing apple could do about it.

Re: HomeKit

#112
Building automation is already available for all your automation needs. Quite expensive but working well. I cannot see what Apple brings to the table other than control devices. Big automation vendors will probably just write a wrapper for that custom Apple protocol and be done with it.

Re: HomeKit

#113
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm looking forward to things like the Almond+, which will use Z-Wave. I don't hold out hope for Apple opening anything up after the Darwin components started disappearing and after the broken FaceTime promise.

Darwin is fair enough, but FaceTime was due to a patent held by another company. The fight cost them something like $500 million but in the end there's nothing apple could do about it.

Reference?

Re: HomeKit

#114
post #34

Dear Apple, please for the love of god and the good of everyone, get together with Google and iron out a common protocol for this stuff. Don't make this one of your competitive technologies designed to fragment the world into Apple and not-Apple. Home automation is just dying to take off and there's a pile of gold for everyone if you just show a tiny bit of cooperation to get it started ... And you can all still sue…

[deleted]

Re: HomeKit

#115
post #34

Dear Apple, please for the love of god and the good of everyone, get together with Google and iron out a common protocol for this stuff. Don't make this one of your competitive technologies designed to fragment the world into Apple and not-Apple. Home automation is just dying to take off and there's a pile of gold for everyone if you just show a tiny bit of cooperation to get it started ... And you can all still sue…

Strategically it looks smarter to interoperate with Google here. Not doing so will probably lock Google out ofthe USA to some extent but it'll surely lock Apple out of anywhere Android dominate and scrap any growth ideas from emerging markets.

Re: HomeKit

#116
post #80
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonder if we'll see futures houses advertised for sale as being Apple, Google or whatever other brand supported properties. Not too keen on that concept.

That's happening in the auto industry. Many cars feature Apple integration while Google is leveraging Android: http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/6/5279116/google-open-automot... https://www.apple.com/ipod/car-integration/#mercedes

Not quite the same thing. iOS's CarPlay integration is just a mechanism for mirroring your iOS device in-car and using the car media controls. The Open Automotive Alliance is about trying to get Android into the embedded car systems market.

The CarPlay integration can be served just as easily by embedded Android as it can by any of the other in-car systems. The two approaches are not mutually exclusive.

Re: HomeKit

#118
post #4

Now if a ton more hardware manufacturers would start designing around automation - like a washing machine that automatically started drying your clothes next, and an app that could see how dry they are and ask if you want to keep going, etc. Or an oven I could preheat from my couch.

or just get yourself an android butler...

Re: HomeKit

#119
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fantastic, but says nothing about the relative merits of BACnet. It's an industry standard, yes, as I understand it typical of a modern business unit, but that does not mean that it should be the one used by any new adopter. Indeed, BACnet's been around for so long now (and has such poor takeup in the consumer space) that one might wonder whether a newer protocol is necessary. As I understand it, BACnet has a…

Indeed, BACnet's been around for so long now (and has such poor takeup in the consumer space) that one might wonder whether a newer protocol is necessary. Or one could consider that only very recently technology has become cheap enough to be a viable option. In fact, I'm still not convinced it's cheap enough to interest the average consumer. Tho Apple's team probably disagree. What do you mean by not plug-and-play? A…

Security is incredibly important. If I give someone my WiFi password, I'd really rather they didn't have the ability to open/close my windows, turn off my heating, turn on my lights etc. Introducing such a system to the consumer domain would be the most socially irresponsible thing Apple could do. Now when your kid downloads dodgy porn and gets a virus, you don't just get a slower computer demanding your cash, your central heating stops working pending payment!

So what you're saying is that you'd make a new version of BACnet to make it suitable? A new standard? Were I Apple, I'd refuse to let my devices connect to any insecure devices - it'd lead me open to many horrible 'I got a virus and it unlocked my door' online stories which would be horrible for business and stop the process in its tracks - and so the new standard would not be backwards compatible. So, if we had a new standard, there'd be loads of BACnet devices that did not support my stuff (consumer confusion), huge trouble negotiating the standard with all the current stakeholders, and a lot of cruft that I'd have to implement that I don't really want to implement (lift controls etc).

What I meant by the IPv6 comment was that consumer networks are switching to IPv6 at a high rate, and IPv6 only networks might become a reality in 10-15 years (with an external ISP 6to4). It's ok for businesses to stay on IPv4, but most in the consumer space use their ISP provided routers. In this case, we'd likely see large incompatibilities with most of the BACnet devices - we'd end up with this weird split standard.

In this case, we have this interesting situation where we have many BACnet branded devices, but only a few are relevant for the average consumer.

The reason that home users have ethernet and IP is because of the hourglass model. The reason that most services just work is that they talk TCP/UDP - anything below that they can ignore - so if we use a new hardware layer, if we use FDDI etc we can still use TCP because everything talks in IP. BACnet kinda breaks that - you mentioned ZigBee adding BACnet support - ZigBee has supported IP for ages - had BACnet followed the hourglass model (as literally every other internet service I have ever seen has done) then support for BACnet would have been immediate and unnecessary to trumpet.

Re overkill - again, it's about the hourglass principle. http://named-data.net/wp-content/uploads/hourglass.png - the idea is that we all achieve massive interoperability by using IP. BACnet doesn't quite fit into that, mostly because it replaces IP for (as I understand it) no particularly good reason.

You want standards when you have a mature market and you want to prevent lockin. Standards in an emerging market can lead to stagnation and reduced innovation, as each change must be agreed by the stakeholders (who might have opposing visions) - like what happened with OAuth 2.0. This is why (say) new programming languages typically have a few years of backwards incompatibilities before they get standardised.

Re: HomeKit

#120
post #34

Dear Apple, please for the love of god and the good of everyone, get together with Google and iron out a common protocol for this stuff. Don't make this one of your competitive technologies designed to fragment the world into Apple and not-Apple. Home automation is just dying to take off and there's a pile of gold for everyone if you just show a tiny bit of cooperation to get it started ... And you can all still sue…

Dear "zmmmmm", it was Apple who kept inviting Google to every party they had. Default Google search in Safari, default Google Maps and YouTube on iPhone and so on and so on.

Who fucked it up? Google.

The whole world sees Google has rock solid services and technology and the whole world sees Nest has some great ideas going. But Google's historical behavior shows they use all this goodness to (pardon my French) surprise-buttfuck their partners again and again.

Point the fingers at Google.

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