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It's time for the US to use the metric system
71–80 of 210 posts
Re: It's time for the US to use the metric system
#72Some thoughts on a conversion that I don't generally see brought up: * From an economic standpoint, the US is a big enough market that it is profitable to make things in weird US units, you have 350M people to sell to, most of whom are pretty well off by world standards. It makes sense to make a line catering to them. If businesses can start making a true or good economic argument it will happen more. * Tooling that…
It's not like America is the only country that will have ever transitioned. Many other countries have gone through all those issues without much complaint. It's not some untested experimental process being advocated. It's not like the US is going to be using weird-arse inches, furlongs, horses and stones forever.
Wow you must not have read my comment at all. I explicitly said we should convert, but that there are some considerations that need to be made. I even said that now is a better time than ever.
Perhaps I'm not being zealous enough with my "hey lets be careful about this as we do it" type statement?
Re: It's time for the US to use the metric system
#73These articles are always missing the subtly of the issue. I'm going to ignore MPH signs & mile markers, because they really don't matter much for international interoperability. The important things are focused around dimensions on parts, packaging, engineering drawings, etc.
Sure, we all know that lots of areas in the US already use the metric system. I have personally used metric in the biomedical & consumer electronic industries, but had to use imperial in the defense industry. Generally the more advanced or international the industry the more metric it is. (That's why construction may simply never switch).
What people generally don't realize is that other countries are still using the imperial system because the US drives the market. Lots of imperial system parts are made in Mexico, China, etc to feed into US supply chains. Complete wild ass guess, but I bet more imperial system bolts are made in China than in the US.
It's not like there is a ban on making non-metric parts in the 'metric countries'. They'll do it, and often times non-metric parts are cheaper even coming from metric countries because of the volumes.
It really seems like an industry by industry fight, and by and large it is a ratchet turning in only one direction. Even the defense industry is started to use metric for some parts. I think 50 years from now it will be a moot point.
Re: It's time for the US to use the metric system
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not like America is the only country that will have ever transitioned. Many other countries have gone through all those issues without much complaint. It's not some untested experimental process being advocated. It's not like the US is going to be using weird-arse inches, furlongs, horses and stones forever.
We're by far the largest country (in terms of population) to attempt a conversion. That counts for something.
The amount of effort required per capita is still much the same.
Re: It's time for the US to use the metric system
#75The strange thing about articles like this is that they seem to assume that converting between units is something that happens all the time, such that doing so is a huge drain on the economy and engineering time. I don't know if my experience is the common one - but with a few exceptions (inches/feet, oz/pounds) such conversions seem kind of rare. Instead, you pick an appropriately sized unit to begin with, and stick…
> (Such that lumber is sold in lengths of 243.82 cm rather than 8 feet.) It's interesting that you pick that example. In many cases, the "measurements" for lumber don't actually correspond to the true dimensions of the product purchased. For example, a "2x4" has dimensions of 1 1⁄2 inches x 3 1⁄2 inches[0], rather than 2 inches by 4 inches. So, at least for the example you give, it's not clear to me that converting t…
Having worked in construction, I think it is the last point you make that is most important. Though a 2x4 is 1.5x3.5, it is a standard dimension. In the US, construction standards (lumber sizes, door frame sizes, ceiling heights, etc) are all in feet and inches. Changing them creates a compatibility nightmare. That said, I don't know of other industries that suffer the same challenge (perhaps others can think of them). Bicycles for examples transitioned reasonably quickly from English standards (e.g. 1 in. stems and 27 in. wheels) to fully metric for road bikes at least.
Re: It's time for the US to use the metric system
#76Some thoughts on a conversion that I don't generally see brought up: * From an economic standpoint, the US is a big enough market that it is profitable to make things in weird US units, you have 350M people to sell to, most of whom are pretty well off by world standards. It makes sense to make a line catering to them. If businesses can start making a true or good economic argument it will happen more. * Tooling that…
> * Tooling that exists in standard units seems to be a bit of a red herring: I dislike having to own wrenches in both standard and metric units - a transition to one set would actually be nice. At a larger scale, i.e. manufacturing, it would make sense to start replacing things with metric on regular maintenance cycles. With very long cycle things just having a label change.
I don't think you'll get rid of that second set of sockets/wrenches for decades. There are going to be just too many instances where there is an old connector, nut, bolt, etc. that needs to be worked with. I think of it as having two sets of wrenches or am buying two sets of wrenches anyway. The metric and imperial sockets come in one set and share the ratchets.
Re: It's time for the US to use the metric system
#77Hearing Fahrenheit in Toronto does surprise me on the few occasions that it happens (usually either retirement-age seniors or American visitors). Recently I noticed the medical profession has come on board with cm/kilos for measurement which is pretty surprising since hearing inches/pounds is still fairly common. Having grown up in the 70s and 80s I still find I float between the two fairly easily but I sure did find…
Scotland (as part of Britain) is not metric as far as I know. The imperial measurement system was created by the British after all. The rest of the EU is metric, but not Britain.
Britain, including Scotland, is Metric. The fact that metrication happened in the 60s means people of a certain age describe the weather in both F or C, depending on the situation.
The UK is certainly unique in the EU for its exceptions which include the use of miles per hour for speeds, miles for distances and, for example, 'pints' for beer. But much EU legislation on the sale of goods has been enshrined in UK law and means that most items have to be sold in metric units of weight/volume etc.
Re: It's time for the US to use the metric system
#78Some thoughts on a conversion that I don't generally see brought up: * From an economic standpoint, the US is a big enough market that it is profitable to make things in weird US units, you have 350M people to sell to, most of whom are pretty well off by world standards. It makes sense to make a line catering to them. If businesses can start making a true or good economic argument it will happen more. * Tooling that…
To be honest, the U.S. really should have switched during the late 19thor very early 20th century before the benefits of the industrial revolution gave us so much stuff that needs to be converted. Even if we converted tomorrow, we'd still be dragging around imperial measures for decades, maybe a century.
I can't see cooking or property measurements making the transition within my grandchildren's lifetimes. In most countries that have metricized, property remains a very stubborn holdout.
Commercial products could convert much quicker, it's mostly a label change during the next minor packaging refresh, followed by the next major packaging refresh adjusting the size to make the unit look better. (1lb -> 453.592g -> 450g)
Paper might take decades, companies have significant investments into handling standard paper sizes, from production to clipboards to file rooms. Going paperless is probably more likely. My local mechanic is now almost entirely paperless for example, but the final bill is still printed out on 8.5x11 paper and a copy filed away.
I agree that manufactured goods should just set a date and switch on the next model year. Eventually the older imperial items will just rust away, with a few examples kept alive by very dedicated hobbyists.
But some niche craftsman fields will probably never switch. Printers still use points and picas despite trying to metricize for a long while. You end up with incredibly awkward metric units for these things when you try to convert, and lots of the handiness of customary units (easy fractional divisibility) comes into play.
Re: It's time for the US to use the metric system
#79While you are at can you change the date format as well? DD/MM/YYYY instead of MM/DD/YYYY (US). It should go from small to big. The other way around makes my head hurts every time.
YYYY-MM-DD is a much better choice. It sorts like a number, and it's unambiguous in standard usage.
Re: It's time for the US to use the metric system
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not like America is the only country that will have ever transitioned. Many other countries have gone through all those issues without much complaint. It's not some untested experimental process being advocated. It's not like the US is going to be using weird-arse inches, furlongs, horses and stones forever.
Wow you must not have read my comment at all. I explicitly said we should convert, but that there are some considerations that need to be made. I even said that now is a better time than ever. Perhaps I'm not being zealous enough with my "hey lets be careful about this as we do it" type statement?
America is like the fat kid who's the last to jump into the swimming pool; everyone else is shouting the water is fine, it's warm, it's fun, but you're sitting there worried about the consequences of being wet. As if you were the first person to ever get wet.
You don't need to be careful. Just look at everyone else who jumped in without injury and jump yourself.