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Spolsky: Setting the Right Priorities

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Re: Spolsky: Setting the Right Priorities

#21

Post by BerislavLopac »

michael_dorfman wrote: post #16
statictype wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he's popular more for his engaging writing style than anything else. I would consider the fact that he made mistakes in the past a non factor at the least, and at best, an indication that he's capable of learning from mistakes.

I enjoy his writing style. But I think people have been putting him on a pedestal for a while, in terms of the advice he dishes out. The fact that he's made mistakes in the past would be a non-factor, if it weren't for the fact that people are following his dicta-- and how do we know that the advice he gives now is not going to be the fodder for next year's "I-was-so-much-dumber-then" article?

It's very simple, actually. Anyone who blindly follows another man's advice, without checking everything and bringing their own judgement into the formula, very well deserves all that happens to them.

Re: Spolsky: Setting the Right Priorities

#22

Post by bad_user »

trapper wrote: post #18
bad_user wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, you have to do some marketing. But I think that if you're investing time in marketing to be able to survive, then you're doing something wrong ... you either chose the wrong market, or your product is not good enough. From my experience, improving your product (which is not equal to adding more features) is the best way to get new customers. That's because marketing that's not properly targeted is as good…

"From my experience, improving your product (which is not equal to adding more features) is the best way to get new customers" How can customers find your product and understand what it does if you build stuff and don't market it?

> How can customers find your product and understand what it does if you build stuff and don't market it?

I already said that ... you have to do some marketing, but you shouldn't depend on investing marketing resources for survival. That's a big difference. Good products are their own marketing, and you can rely on a networking effect ... people usually tell their friends when they've found something hot.

And I'm not even talking about viral web 2.0 apps here ... I have a management app specific to pharmacy-shops (doing a couple of crazy stuff others haven't thought about) and it sells itself (I only had to do marketing for the initial 5 sells or so, and now after 4 months I have 30 customers ... which for the price I'm charging is really good).

Re: Spolsky: Setting the Right Priorities

#24

Post by discojesus »

doug_m wrote: post #10

When I read Joel's articles I know I enjoy them, I know they're interesting and I learn from them but also that I'm reading marketing for his products and brand - its win-win and I subscribe to his marketing output along with everything else he publishes willingly. I'd like to read about the impact "Joel on Software" and his celebrity has had on his success/sales though. Its almost like you read the article and he di…

I'd like to read about the impact "Joel on Software" and his celebrity has had on his success/sales though.

within epsilon of 100%. I love Joel, his articles, and the Stack Overflow podcast, but nobody would have heard of him (or FogBugz) if he weren't such a brilliant marketer. He established FogBugz and Joel Spolsky as pretty big brands in the programming community, and made a previously unknown software company into what is now seen as one of the elite places to work in the industry.

He's got the technical chops to back it up, but that doesn't matter - he is amazingly good at marketing, and he really gets the power of brands.

Re: Spolsky: Setting the Right Priorities

#25

Post by mechanical_fish »

JunkDNA wrote: post #17
michael_dorfman wrote: post #8

It's a good article, and the main point is an important one. That being said: am I the only one who finds it quizzical that Joel ever became such a notable pundit in the first place, in light of all of the articles outlining his (past) clueless behavior?

I actually think his "clueless behavior" is one of the reasons his stuff resonates with people. Everyone makes mistakes, some of us make them a lot . Lots of people in Joel's position are tempted to leave out the mistakes they made when telling their story. By detailing all these blunders, Joel connects with the average "Joe Programmer". Instead of making himself out to be a super-human, he comes off as a an informed…

From a very good screenwriting website comes this essay, "Impressive Failure":

http://www.wordplayer.com/columns/wp08.Impressive.Failure.ht...

"In plotting an action-adventure type film, how your hero fails is at least as important as how he succeeds. If the plot requires the hero to fail, try to figure out a way for him to fail as impressively as possible.

"Consider RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK. Indiana Jones is perhaps the greatest action hero in the history of the movies. And in his debut film, he flat-out fails from beginning to end.

"He loses the golden idol. Marian is kidnapped and he's unable to rescue her. He finds the Ark, but it is immediately taken away. His bluff to destroy the Ark is called, and he gets recaptured. He can't even look upon the Ark when it is opened. And the government ends up with his long sought-after and much suffered-for prize. This guy's an action hero?

"Yup. Because he fails so damn impressively, from start to finish. Indy fails so well, in fact, the audience is impressed as hell, and hardly aware of the fact that he's failing. The defeats are just setbacks that create more opportunities for heroism. As an added benefit, Indy wins the audience's sympathy -- the poor guy's trying so hard, you can't help but root for him."

Re: Spolsky: Setting the Right Priorities

#26

Post by trapper »

bad_user wrote: post #22
trapper wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"From my experience, improving your product (which is not equal to adding more features) is the best way to get new customers" How can customers find your product and understand what it does if you build stuff and don't market it?

> How can customers find your product and understand what it does if you build stuff and don't market it? I already said that ... you have to do some marketing, but you shouldn't depend on investing marketing resources for survival. That's a big difference. Good products are their own marketing, and you can rely on a networking effect ... people usually tell their friends when they've found something hot. And I'm not…

1. You assume customers talk. Bad assumption in many, many markets. Why do you think chasm tells you to choose a niche with a network effect? Most markets aren't like this.

2. Network effects have specific rules to be useful. Most businesses can't take advantage of them, especially if they are charging money.

3. 5->30 is not a good basis to judge this on. You are still in the early adopter phase, and luckily for you this market must have a high word of mouth quotient.

The problem with just assuming things is that it stops you from looking objectively at your market, and you end up relying on luck. Most businesses I know want a repeatable sales process, not one based on faith.

Re: Spolsky: Setting the Right Priorities

#29

Post by tom_rath »

bad_user wrote: post #13
patio11 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marketing is an engineering process. Technically inclined people do not have to suck at it . To the extent that many do, it is largely because they've been taught to undervalue its importance, treat it as an afterthought, and dismiss properly conducted marketing as something which is for weak and stupid people.

> dismiss properly conducted marketing as something which is for weak and stupid people. I didn't say that. I think it's dismissed more because the majority of marketing campaigns send out a dishonest message, and because of that customers are getting more and more insensitive to such campaigns. And I also don't think it is an engineering process in the traditional way (although it's fashionable for everything that h…

You're thinking of advertising rather than marketing as a whole.

Think of marketing as the social component of design. You wouldn't start coding an application before you had at least a rough design of what its functionality would be, right? So why would you start designing a product before you identified who is going to use it and what they will be using it for? Marketing answers those questions.

In rough, marketing identifies your market: Who will be using your product and why. Your application / business is then built using that knowledge.

Re: Spolsky: Setting the Right Priorities

#30

Post by sophacles »

prakash wrote: post #27
mixmax wrote: post #3

The date of the article is sep 1, 2009. That's 6 days from now.

Joel can see the future, so can Inc. ;-)

Wait, you're saying this article, which is about the past, somehow requires prescience? So the now-past is different from the future-past? Can we compare the now-past with the past as it will be on 9/1 and somehow glean a way to make piles of money?
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