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Thomas Piketty Responds to Criticism of His Data

nytimes.com

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Re: Thomas Piketty Responds to Criticism of His Data

#61

Post by dllthomas »

pavlov wrote: post #58
baddox wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Climate change and macroeconomics are really similar in this regard. I think the main reason there is so much controversy is because the science is so entangled with the politics , and that probably applies to the experts just as much as it applies to the average onlooker.

Climate research is nothing like economics. Politics is involved in how we should react to the scientific results, but that doesn't mean the science itself is "entangled" with politics. You might just as well suggest that paleontology is entangled with religion because its findings offend some people's religious views.

Ideologies climb.

Re: Thomas Piketty Responds to Criticism of His Data

#62

Post by baddox »

pavlov wrote: post #58
baddox wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Climate change and macroeconomics are really similar in this regard. I think the main reason there is so much controversy is because the science is so entangled with the politics , and that probably applies to the experts just as much as it applies to the average onlooker.

Climate research is nothing like economics. Politics is involved in how we should react to the scientific results, but that doesn't mean the science itself is "entangled" with politics. You might just as well suggest that paleontology is entangled with religion because its findings offend some people's religious views.

> You might just as well suggest that paleontology is entangled with religion because its findings offend some people's religious views.

I absolutely would say that.

Re: Thomas Piketty Responds to Criticism of His Data

#63

Post by Ma8ee »

001sky wrote: post #40
conistonwater wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the analogy with climate science works, then the inequality debate will be even worse than the climate change "debate". The straws on which climate change denialism rests are so small because the level of evidence one can reach with physics is so particularly high. Economics probably won't ever reach the same standard of evidence. To this day, people in politics are still having arguments about the relationship be…

Physics and weather forecasting are not similar endeavours. Nor is the relationship with fed interest rates and inflation transparent. FYI "people in politics" describes every economist. their businesss model relies on someone listening to them. Those people pay them money. And those are all "people in politics".

Weather forecasting is applied physics. The systems are big, some interactions aren't known precisely, and the boundary conditions are more complex than most physicists usually work with, but weather forecasting is definitely physics.

Re: Thomas Piketty Responds to Criticism of His Data

#64

Post by tankenmate »

om2 wrote: post #37
credo wrote: post #10

Unfortunately, ultimately, the research, data and analysis isn't going to matter much. Consider the debate on climate change, 98% of climate scientists agree that humans contribute significantly to climate change, but large numbers of Americans (including some of the most powerful politicians and talk-radio hosts) either deny climate change or claim that humans don't do much to cause climate change. I expect the ineq…

The FT data objections are far from the strongest objections to Pinketty's work. Here are a few criticisms seem much more serious than nitpicking the data: http://www.econ.nyu.edu/user/debraj/Papers/Piketty.pdf http://aida.wss.yale.edu/smith/piketty1.pdf http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2014/05/unp... In brief, his theoretical mechanisms that supposedly predict and explain greater wealth accumulation…

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" -- Upton Sinclair

Re: Thomas Piketty Responds to Criticism of His Data

#65

Post by simonster »

econghiy wrote: post #47
Malarkey73 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a 10 page rebuttal .. but if you insist I précis the killer points for you then: The first of two substantive changes the FT notes that greatly changes Pikettys European wealth trend would be the wealth estimate for Britain. The FT choose a Fig of 44% they have got from a wealth survey carried out by the ONS (Britains govt statistical office) - compared to Pikettys 71%. The 71% is from estate tax data from B…

Piketty used data that was "unreliable" https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm... The ONS was used as a result. Piketty relied on similar self-reported surveys for his US data.

Perhaps you would care to point to the part of the PDF that indicates the data are unreliable, and to comment on the plausibility argument, i.e. that the FT's analysis indicates that "Britain is currently one the most egalitarian countries in history in terms of wealth distribution" and in particular that it is far more equal than Sweden is or has ever been?

Re: Thomas Piketty Responds to Criticism of His Data

#66

Post by SoftwareMaven »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #48
chongli wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately (or unfortunately) inequality and poverty have significant, damaging effects on the voting public. It's easy to buy into the idea that global warming is a conspiracy when you walk outside on a cool day. It's not so easy to accept the lies about inequality when you and all your friends and relatives start losing their jobs and have their homes foreclosed.

> It's not so easy to accept the lies about inequality when you and all your friends and relatives start losing their jobs and have their homes foreclosed. Except when the man on the talk radio blames it on "inept Big Government" or "excessive taxation". Then it's super-easy.

Given the amount we spend on government, the inefficient way it's run, and the value the taxpayer gets for the dollar (compared to e.g. Sweden), it's a huge, brightly painted target. It is not all of the problem, but it is a problem.

Re: Thomas Piketty Responds to Criticism of His Data

#67

Post by 001sky »

Ma8ee wrote: post #63
001sky wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physics and weather forecasting are not similar endeavours. Nor is the relationship with fed interest rates and inflation transparent. FYI "people in politics" describes every economist. their businesss model relies on someone listening to them. Those people pay them money. And those are all "people in politics".

Weather forecasting is applied physics. The systems are big, some interactions aren't known precisely, and the boundary conditions are more complex than most physicists usually work with, but weather forecasting is definitely physics.

Your second sentence makes the first meaningless.

Re: Thomas Piketty Responds to Criticism of His Data

#68

Post by pavlov »

baddox wrote: post #62
pavlov wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Climate research is nothing like economics. Politics is involved in how we should react to the scientific results, but that doesn't mean the science itself is "entangled" with politics. You might just as well suggest that paleontology is entangled with religion because its findings offend some people's religious views.

> You might just as well suggest that paleontology is entangled with religion because its findings offend some people's religious views. I absolutely would say that.

I guess we have different definitions of "entangled".

Re: Thomas Piketty Responds to Criticism of His Data

#69

Post by baddox »

pavlov wrote: post #68
baddox wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You might just as well suggest that paleontology is entangled with religion because its findings offend some people's religious views. I absolutely would say that.

I guess we have different definitions of "entangled".

It sounds like you're saying they shouldn't be entangled, which is reasonable, but under what definition of "entangled" are they not currently entangled?

Re: Thomas Piketty Responds to Criticism of His Data

#70

Post by Zuider »

tankenmate wrote: post #64
om2 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FT data objections are far from the strongest objections to Pinketty's work. Here are a few criticisms seem much more serious than nitpicking the data: http://www.econ.nyu.edu/user/debraj/Papers/Piketty.pdf http://aida.wss.yale.edu/smith/piketty1.pdf http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2014/05/unp... In brief, his theoretical mechanisms that supposedly predict and explain greater wealth accumulation…

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" -- Upton Sinclair

It is even harder when there is an ideological block. In the first case, you get stonewalled, and ultimately ignored. In the case of ideology, you get shouted down, mobbed, and subject to various preemptive attacks intended to discredit and demoralize you before you even get to make your case.
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