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How Frank Lloyd Wright Tried to Solve the City

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Re: How Frank Lloyd Wright Tried to Solve the City

#51

Post by rglover »

cphuntington97 wrote: post #47
rglover wrote: post #37

I grew up in suburban Ohio and have lived in Chicago for the past two years. Before I moved, there was a longing to join the energy of the city. Ohio, by and large, is pretty slow moving. It wasn't until I got to Chicago that I realized the effect that change of pace had. In order to both live and function in the city, I had to rewire my brain. I recall the first few months in the city being absolutely terrifying. No…

I think you're a harsh judge of cities if Chicago is your only example. I had similar thoughts about Chicago on a brief visit; that it's big, cold both physically and emotionally, windy... generally, somewhat hostile to the senses. I'm sure there are a lot of great activities going on that I don't know about, but that was my surface impression. I live in Buffalo, New York which to me is a "just right" sized city. I c…

Chicago is the only major city I've lived in. I didn't mean to articulate my feelings toward all cities. There are parts of New York City that feel incredibly homey (strange as that may sound). There's definitely a size of city that's just right, like you've described here. I also used to live in Ann Arbor, MI. Considered a city, but also has a nice hometown feel to it.

I agree on the isolation of boulevards and strip malls. I prefer areas where there's a microcity/downtown area, but a lot of grassy residential space close by. The modern mega suburbs (with Best Buy's, Wal-Marts, and every fast food imaginable) are terrible.

Re: How Frank Lloyd Wright Tried to Solve the City

#52

Post by rglover »

kcovia wrote: post #39
rglover wrote: post #37

I grew up in suburban Ohio and have lived in Chicago for the past two years. Before I moved, there was a longing to join the energy of the city. Ohio, by and large, is pretty slow moving. It wasn't until I got to Chicago that I realized the effect that change of pace had. In order to both live and function in the city, I had to rewire my brain. I recall the first few months in the city being absolutely terrifying. No…

I think your experience describes your feelings in the city. As someone who grew up half in a city and half in the country, I feel more at home and more significant in an urban environment.

Definitely. Didn't want my sentiments to apply to all cities. See my reply above. A lot of places that embody the spirit of a city, without the "shut out" feeling.

Certainly depends on the person. Which, whether FLW's desire or not, is why forcing an option on everyone and assuming it's the best for each person is a pretty weak way of doing things.

That's actually my favorite part of humanity: there are a lot of different ways of life/attitudes. Just a matter of finding the one you sync up with best.

Re: How Frank Lloyd Wright Tried to Solve the City

#53

Post by saraid216 »

saalweachter wrote: post #26

The article mentions that his spread out, one-acre-per-person city "would be connected by a complex design of streets and highways." Is anyone familiar with his highway plan? My impression of city planning is that roads are the hard, boring part, so I'm curious if Wright's roads were just a thing he drew between his beautifully arranged buildings and parks, or if he had an actual plan for how to move people efficient…

> Saying "everyone should live close to their workplace" only works if you have a single, mega-office/industrial park, with all of the housing arranged tightly around it.

You're assuming zoning.

Check this out: office. And then put a house on top.

More reasonably, do what I ended up having to do in SimCity: zone a couple spaces as commercial, then zone another couple spaces as residential, and then zone another couple spaces as commercial, and keep flipping back and forth.

Re: How Frank Lloyd Wright Tried to Solve the City

#54

Post by saalweachter »

saraid216 wrote: post #53
saalweachter wrote: post #26

The article mentions that his spread out, one-acre-per-person city "would be connected by a complex design of streets and highways." Is anyone familiar with his highway plan? My impression of city planning is that roads are the hard, boring part, so I'm curious if Wright's roads were just a thing he drew between his beautifully arranged buildings and parks, or if he had an actual plan for how to move people efficient…

> Saying "everyone should live close to their workplace" only works if you have a single, mega-office/industrial park, with all of the housing arranged tightly around it. You're assuming zoning. Check this out: office. And then put a house on top. More reasonably, do what I ended up having to do in SimCity: zone a couple spaces as commercial, then zone another couple spaces as residential, and then zone another coupl…

It doesn't matter if you have zoning or intermingled commercial/residential.

I work at Industrial Widgets, it's in an intermingled commercial/residential building, there's an apartment free on the three floors up from the very office.

My wife currently works at Consolidated Sprockets across town. There's an apartment across the street. However, it's just an internship at she hopes to get a job at Conglomerated Weevils in a few months. It's located in a third location.

Where should we live?

Re: How Frank Lloyd Wright Tried to Solve the City

#55

Post by saraid216 »

saalweachter wrote: post #54
saraid216 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Saying "everyone should live close to their workplace" only works if you have a single, mega-office/industrial park, with all of the housing arranged tightly around it. You're assuming zoning. Check this out: office. And then put a house on top. More reasonably, do what I ended up having to do in SimCity: zone a couple spaces as commercial, then zone another couple spaces as residential, and then zone another coupl…

It doesn't matter if you have zoning or intermingled commercial/residential. I work at Industrial Widgets, it's in an intermingled commercial/residential building, there's an apartment free on the three floors up from the very office. My wife currently works at Consolidated Sprockets across town. There's an apartment across the street. However, it's just an internship at she hopes to get a job at Conglomerated Weevil…

[edit] I wrote a thing about transportation, but I didn't realize you were criticizing Wright's plan, so nevermind; I've actually never found a reason to admire Wright and the article didn't really do anything for that.

Re: How Frank Lloyd Wright Tried to Solve the City

#56

Post by dredmorbius »

No discussion of cities and reimagining them is complete without referencing Jane Jacobs.

Her approach was almost the direct opposite of Wrights (and of many urban reformers). Her focus was the street and interactions between residents, shopkeepers, and other inhabitants of the city. Her realization (mirrored well by Garrison Keillor in a biographical documentary I caught a year or so back) was that cities are collections of neighborhoods or villages. rglover her contrasts his impression of Chicago with the small towns of Ohio in which he grew up. My experience with large cities is that frequently their downtowns are impersonal (though even there I've found my niches), but it's in the neighborhood that their character really shows. Sometimes it's a character you don't much care for, but often there's a sense of place and community, even in dynamic and rapidly changing cities, which can persist for years, decades, or even generations. It does take time to appreciate and find, though.

Back to Jacobs: finding her The Life and Death of Great American Cities was a watershed for me (and I can still remember the marginalia in my uni's copy at one of her common-sense observations: "God bless you, Jane"). Cities and the Wealth of Nations and The Economy of Cities changed many of my perceptions of what economics was about and where its real centers lay (it's rarely nations or states, cities and metropolitan areas, yes).

Wright's interesting. But he's no authority on cities or urban planning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Jacobs

Re: How Frank Lloyd Wright Tried to Solve the City

#57

Post by chc »

ajuc wrote: post #13
chc wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a practical solution for many people. If I lived nearer to where I work, I'd be living on the streets.

Use public transport?

Because public transportation is horrible in much of the US, that's a 4.5-hour commute.

Re: How Frank Lloyd Wright Tried to Solve the City

#58

Post by walshemj »

silverbax88 wrote: post #49
walshemj wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well 1 horses are dangerous (horse riding is a high risk sport) 2 the removal of the horse poop becomes a major issue. I cant see a problem in riding across New York - I have done cross central London a few times.

And you are of course, elderly or handicapped, correct? Or you need to travel with two small children? And when you say you biked 'across New York', you mean from Long Island or Yonkers to Manhattan or some similar commuter trek, correct?

Across manhatten yes done that distance many many times in London its surprising how quickly you can get from a train terminus in the north over the river on a bike.

You can get kids bike seats and trailers I see a tandem with a kids trailer do a commute from my village to the local town (3 miles quite often)

Re: How Frank Lloyd Wright Tried to Solve the City

#59

Post by malyk »

Shivetya wrote: post #25
mercer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but isn't that the whole point? If a city is designed for cars, you're gonna need a car. Which has all kinds of downsides. I have to admit I often thumbed my nose at 'those Americans and theird cars', but only until I spent some time in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. Once there, I realized that it's pretty much impossible to do anything without a care! It shocked me.

well there is weather, cities rarely are designed to protect you from adverse weather. Usually it what ends a lot of people's new found idea of, lets bike to work. One day its too hot, its too cold, its wet, its windy, oh I need to take x, and on and on and on, now we have a nice garage ornament. Biking to work is fine, I just wish people quit implying its an alternative to cars or mass transportation when its very w…

It's not weather dependent though. Just look at Denmark. Cold, wet, snowy in winter and yet basically the same number of people are biking to work year round.

That said, Americans in particular are used to being in a "comfortable" environment all the time. It's a cultural thing, and those take forever to change, but there's nothing inherent in the calculus of weather and biking (with a few obvious exceptions).

Re: How Frank Lloyd Wright Tried to Solve the City

#60

Post by malyk »

cphuntington97 wrote: post #48
ohwp wrote: post #3

There are more architects who tried this. Christopher Alexander dedicated a lot of time to solve building countries to doorsteps. What amazed me after reading some of his books are the physical effects of today's cities on humans (and animals). Some examples: Living higher than 4 stores: there is evidence that this will disconnect you from the life happening on ground level. Streets made for cars: cars are more impor…

I must recommend Jan Gehl's masterpiece, Life Between Buildings http://amzn.to/1jwFtcP

Saw a talk he gave at Berkeley a few months ago. He's a fascinating character and has done a tremendous amount of research about how cities function.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Gehl

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