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So a female programmer walks into a bar…

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Re: So a female programmer walks into a bar…

#61

Post by thrillgore »

muglug wrote: post #50
hawkharris wrote: post #32

Have you ever noticed that HN posts concerning gender discrimination tend to attract hundreds of comments? That's not intrinsically bad. What's questionable is the quality of the comments. It seems that almost all the remarks on this page are drawn from opinion or personal anecdotes. Don't get me wrong... personal stories can be interesting and insightful; it's just that, in most discussion threads, HN tends to balan…

Why the need to explicitly police the discussion? Doesn't HN's system of up-and-down votes already accomplish that?

Allowing a voting system does not guarantee any form of quality control, especially when the content of the article is very controversial, if not intended to insight differing opinions.

Re: So a female programmer walks into a bar…

#62

Post by vectorpush »

lmm wrote: post #39
mindcrime wrote: post #19

“you’re a chick, leave this crap to REAL developers”. I really don't understand guys who say (or think) shit like this. Honestly, it annoys me not so much because it's sexist, or misogynistic, or bigoted or whatever, but rather because it's fucking stupid . I've been doing this stuff professional for around 20 years now, and I've worked with oodles of female programmers over the years, and I've never seen any reason…

So at what point have you worked with enough women to be allowed to make inferences? At what point do you stop trusting what you've read on the internet and start going by your own experience? Because thinking back over all the people I've programmed with or inherited a codebase from[1], the average female programmer was significantly worse than the average male programmer (which is not to say that I haven't also wor…

Because thinking back over all the people I've programmed with or inherited a codebase from

So basically, when considering a minuscule, poorly defined and poorly measured data-set, you've decided to draw broad conclusions about half the human population.

I'm not sure how great a programmer you are, but I'll tell you right now that your logic skills need some work.

Re: So a female programmer walks into a bar…

#63

Post by imgabe »

arrrg wrote: post #60
protonfish wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are being distracted by the content of the comment. This kind of nonsense has nothing to do with sexism. (Or if it were racist it has nothing to do with racism, or any other types of 'isms.) Some people are simply cruel, angry, sadistic bullies and the internet gives them the anonymity to get away with it. The reason for the comment was only to hurt.

That doesn’t really make sense, does it? Why do you believe that someone who says something sexist (or racist) is not actually sexist (or racist)? I see no reason at all for this assumption. It seems non-sensical to me. Those people want to be cruel, sure, but they are also sexist (or racist). Also, being sexist (or racist) is as much defined by actions and words as it is by intent. Actually, intent is pretty irrelev…

They're not cruel because they're sexist, they're sexist because they're cruel.

Re: So a female programmer walks into a bar…

#64

Post by arrrg »

lmm wrote: post #53
mhurron wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

White men can't play basketball. Japanese people are good at math. Black men just aren't as intelligent. What you said is just as stupid, also you just did this: https://xkcd.com/385/

In the statistical, average sense, those things are true, aren't they? So why are they stupid? I mean sure, it would be stupid to ignore someone's actual, demonstrated basketball skill just because they're not black. But it's just as stupid to stick our heads in the sand and pretend these patterns don't exist. Generalizing from a sample of 1 girl would indeed be stupid. But at some point you have to start making infe…

No, you don’t. You really don’t.

Judge people for who they are. Individually. Do not presuppose things. Done. It’s quite simple.

Re: So a female programmer walks into a bar…

#65

Post by ChuckMcM »

hawkharris wrote: post #32

Have you ever noticed that HN posts concerning gender discrimination tend to attract hundreds of comments? That's not intrinsically bad. What's questionable is the quality of the comments. It seems that almost all the remarks on this page are drawn from opinion or personal anecdotes. Don't get me wrong... personal stories can be interesting and insightful; it's just that, in most discussion threads, HN tends to balan…

As long as we're going meta here, I am thinking it would be more accurate statement would be that policy discussion posts tend to attract hundreds of comments. Policy discussions are the bike shedding topics of forums like this one. Everyone can participate because they require only an opinion and the barrier to having direct experience is low.

I don't believe it is a bad thing, rather it is the fact that a lot of people reading HN really want to participate in the discussions, but feel they don't have any direct experience so no clear way to participate. Comments like "I agree" do get down voted heavily, and even clever humor. So what does that leave? It leaves topics like gender discrimination or workplace drama.

I've seen similar participation in Ask HN type topics as they again often solicit opinions on a common issue.

Re: So a female programmer walks into a bar…

#66

Post by wambotron »

muglug wrote: post #50
hawkharris wrote: post #32

Have you ever noticed that HN posts concerning gender discrimination tend to attract hundreds of comments? That's not intrinsically bad. What's questionable is the quality of the comments. It seems that almost all the remarks on this page are drawn from opinion or personal anecdotes. Don't get me wrong... personal stories can be interesting and insightful; it's just that, in most discussion threads, HN tends to balan…

Why the need to explicitly police the discussion? Doesn't HN's system of up-and-down votes already accomplish that?

I still don't see downvotes. I don't really post or comment very often, but I've been reading this site almost daily for years.

Maybe they could work that in to an algorithm that gives you the downvote option..

My point is that there are many, many people who are just readers (of posts and comments) who don't feel the need to comment on everything but are perfectly capable of helping police the content. Right now, I can only upvote if I like something. There is no other option for "this is not good/helpful"

Re: So a female programmer walks into a bar…

#67

Post by mgkimsal »

sanderjd wrote: post #59
mgkimsal wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had ColdFusion developers make fun of me for using PHP a few years back. ColdFusion. Yep.

Ha, and you just made fun of ColdFusion developers in just the same fashion!

Not specifically. It was more an issue of CF typically being kicked around - they're the last people I'd have thought would be wanting to kick others around. But I guess everyone wants to put someone else down.

Re: So a female programmer walks into a bar…

#68

Post by arrrg »

imgabe wrote: post #63
arrrg wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t really make sense, does it? Why do you believe that someone who says something sexist (or racist) is not actually sexist (or racist)? I see no reason at all for this assumption. It seems non-sensical to me. Those people want to be cruel, sure, but they are also sexist (or racist). Also, being sexist (or racist) is as much defined by actions and words as it is by intent. Actually, intent is pretty irrelev…

They're not cruel because they're sexist, they're sexist because they're cruel.

How can you know that? That seems like wishful thinking to me.

Re: So a female programmer walks into a bar…

#69

Post by res0nat0r »

chc wrote: post #54
leephillips wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And don't forget to call them out for it, publicly." Many homeowner's policies allow you to pay a bit extra to add defense against defamation lawsuits to your liability coverage. You should at least put this in place, unless you have $30,000 - $100,000 in disposable savings to defend against a defamation suit. This is what you need to plan for if you intend to make public statements that damage a business' reputatio…

I don't understand what you just said here. Because homeowner's insurance policies allow riders for defense against defamation lawsuits, you shouldn't talk about your experience at a company? Why?

You can be sued for making defamatory statements against your prior employer, so you better make sure you can handle the court costs if it comes to that.

Re: So a female programmer walks into a bar…

#70

Post by Pxtl »

It's sad that being generally decent to women is remarkable enough to be newsworthy, but it's important to highlight successes instead of failures if for no better reason than to remind the world that geek misogyny is far from universal or universally tolerated.
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