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Getting to work on diversity at Google

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Re: Getting to work on diversity at Google

#51

Post by xienze »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #27

I'm always confused by the vagueness of these diversity PR efforts. When you consciously want to improve something, you set goals for yourself, and then figure out ways to meet those goals. Then people can hold you accountable. Google doesn't seem to have done any of that. They made a start in choosing what they're going to measure, but I don't understand it. For example, I don't think "Black" is an ethnicity. The di…

"We need more diversity" is code for "we need fewer white men", but I think you already knew that. Everyone does, that's why it doesn't have to be stated.

Re: Getting to work on diversity at Google

#52

Post by [deleted] »

philipwalton wrote: post #13
Dwolb wrote: post #4

It's great to be open and all, but they never mention what their goal is. Do Google believe diversity is good for workplace cohesion, their own social mobility goals, good corporate moral policy, etc.? The data is interesting in it's own right but I don't better understand where Google is going with diversity; I only understand where Google currently stands.

As a Google employee, the reasons I hear is that we'd like the diversity of our workforce to more accurately reflect the diversity of our users, so we can serve them better.

[deleted]

Re: Getting to work on diversity at Google

#53

Post by kps »

reddog wrote: post #37
steele wrote: post #2

age diversity would be interesting as well

Indeed. I would bet my last dollar that its workforce is skewed hugely, disproportionately young. And there are no convenient they-just-aren't-majoring-in-CS excuses for this either. Lots of 50 year old engineers with years of training and experience are looking for work.

I work for Google (though not in Silly Valley) and see no obvious sign of age discrimination here. I was 46 when hired.

Re: Getting to work on diversity at Google

#54

Post by fiatmoney »

heydenberk wrote: post #17

It's {{current_year}} and people are still asking, "why does diversity matter?" Diversity matters for a lot of reasons. Perhaps most importantly, demographic diversity is strongly correlated with diversity in points of view. You want the people building your products to come from many walks of life. Remember how Google+ had significant uptake in the rich white tech dude demographic? Not a coincidence. If you want the…

"Diversity in points of view" is not an unalloyed good. There are significant coordination costs associated with it.

It is also not something you get when you attempt to recruit people from the same sources and socio-cultural milieus with the same acceptance criteria, but of different genders and ethnicities. Hiring an ethnically diverse range of, eg, MIT/CMU/Stanford graduates does not engender diverse viewpoints.

"If you want the best people working at your company, you should want a group with similar demographics as the customer population". Huh. So, if most of my sales of akvavit are to expat Finns, I should certainly not hire a German to do my security audits. And if most of my sales of peat-optimized spades are to the Irish market, I should certainly not contract out the manufacturing to the great industrial base of Shenzhen. This seems rather insensible and possibly bigoted to me.

Re: Getting to work on diversity at Google

#55

Post by Maascamp »

xienze wrote: post #50
Maascamp wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course companies should only hire qualified people. Diversity is about gaining new perspectives and ensuring you're creating an environment _all_ your employees can enjoy and feel comfortable in. Companies, rightly, don't want to stagnate by being limited to perspectives and views that don't fully reflect the world they operate in.

I hear this all the time but really, how much of an impact does "diversity" have on yet another shitty chat app or photo sharing site? They're creating utterly trivial, harmless social applications that have NOTHING to do with racial, cultural, or religious matters.

Who's talking about shitty startups? I don't live in silicon valley.

Re: Getting to work on diversity at Google

#56

Post by omonra »

vajorie wrote: post #39
doodyhead wrote: post #36

Although it's fairly straightforward to distinguish between gender and sexual orientation, I disagree with these traditional US categories of ethnicity. Take a 'White' person, for instance: is a White American the same as a White Englishman, or a White Australian? What about a White Frenchman? These are all classified as 'White' but could potentially be vastly different in terms of diversity. The same argument could…

Yes, race and ethnicity are socially constructed and are fluid. No, however much you try to whitewash it, 70-30-3-4-5 is as shitty as it gets outside of legalized segregation.

What do you think the 99th percentile of SAT scores look like race-wise?

Before decrying lack of diversity in field X, demonstrate presence of one in the pool of qualified candidates.

Re: Getting to work on diversity at Google

#57

Post by nl »

[deleted] wrote: post #52
philipwalton wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Google employee, the reasons I hear is that we'd like the diversity of our workforce to more accurately reflect the diversity of our users, so we can serve them better.

[deleted]

Does this mean we should empose[sic] quotas to get Blacks out of the NFL and replace them with Whites

No to the quotas.

But yes, race in the NFL (and in many sports) is an issue that should be addressed. The old problem of the low proportion of black quarterbacks is slowly being addressed, and the Rooney Rule[1] has had some success with the underrepresentation of black coaches.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooney_Rule

Re: Getting to work on diversity at Google

#58

Post by dragonwriter »

[deleted] wrote: post #52
philipwalton wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Google employee, the reasons I hear is that we'd like the diversity of our workforce to more accurately reflect the diversity of our users, so we can serve them better.

[deleted]

You'll note that no one has suggested that Google adopt quotas, so your whole "does this mean" thing has no basis at all.

Re: Getting to work on diversity at Google

#59

Post by dragonwriter »

Torgo wrote: post #48
rcthompson wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they say they're working with "upstream" to resolve the issue: "Among other things, since 2010 we’ve given more than $40 million to organizations working to bring computer science education to women and girls. And we’ve been working with historically black colleges and universities to elevate coursework and attendance in computer science. For example, this year Google engineer Charles Pratt was in-residence at…

My response was flippant, which is probably why some people have been downvoting it, but I'm legitimately glad if they're working to make their hiring pool more representative of the population. But at the same time, it's hardly their fault or responsibility to "fix" it if universities just aren't graduating people in those proportions. This came right after I'd read a PBS article that claimed "Google finally disclos…

> My response was flippant, which is probably why some people have been downvoting it, but I'm legitimately glad if they're working to make their hiring pool more representative of the population. But at the same time, it's hardly their fault or responsibility to "fix" it if universities just aren't graduating people in those proportions.

If they have reasons to prefer a diverse workforce, whether or not they are at fault for the lack of a sufficiently diverse qualified applicant pool, it is their responsibility to fix it.

Re: Getting to work on diversity at Google

#60

Post by dragonwriter »

omonra wrote: post #56
vajorie wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, race and ethnicity are socially constructed and are fluid. No, however much you try to whitewash it, 70-30-3-4-5 is as shitty as it gets outside of legalized segregation.

What do you think the 99th percentile of SAT scores look like race-wise? Before decrying lack of diversity in field X, demonstrate presence of one in the pool of qualified candidates.

> Before decrying lack of diversity in field X, demonstrate presence of one in the pool of qualified candidates.

No, after identifying the lack of diversity in field X (or, in the case, Company G), finding the lack of diversity in the pool of qualified candidates tells you where you need to work if you care about diversity. But it doesn't mean "there's no problem to do anything about" -- as Google recognizes, hence whey they point to the steps they are taking to address the problems of lack of diversity in the pool of qualified candidates.

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