Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle • Hacker News Board

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#31

Post by anigbrowl » Wed, May 28, 2014, 2:53 AM UTC

rquantz wrote: post #15

It seems like a mistake to remove manual controls entirely, not necessarily because of safety concerns, but because there are a fair number of times when you need the car to go somewhere without having a route. I'm thinking of things like: Moving your car ten feet so somebody else can get out of the driveway; handling double parking during alternate side parking hours; moving the car because you were waiting to pick…

People seem quite comfortable with the joysticks on those electric mobility scooters that are all over the place, and I certainly see more with joysticks than with handlebar steering nowadays so the market seems to disagree with you.

I'm not sure why you and a few others think a joystick will be problematic. Of course, there will be a bunch of tasks/use cases for which these cars won't be suitable, but so what? there's many use cases for which bicycles and motorcycles are unsuitable, but lots of people still use them.

I can certainly see using one of these things for local get-around driving, because I hate to drive and my wife can't.

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#32

Post by jabelk » Wed, May 28, 2014, 2:54 AM UTC

I wonder whether they will first become available as a product that individual people can buy, or if Google will open some sort of service where you can sign up for a monthly "car plan" for X miles. Or maybe partner with a taxi company/Uber, where you pay per ride but the cars are driverless. I imagine all 3 models will be tried at some point, and it'll be interesting to watch their development and which one eventually dominates.

Also, commuting could be done so much more efficiently. Imagine a fleet of 1 person cars that pick you up in the morning, drop you off at a more central location (than your house), at which point you get on a higher capacity (driverless?) vehicle - bus or van maybe - for the trip into the city. And the bus unloads into another central area, with another bunch of small cars taking people to their offices. I'd use the bus if it never stopped, and that system would be almost as fast as driving yourself. Heck, it'd probably be much faster, because the hordes of people people sitting alone in their sedans would be consolidated and eliminate a lot of highway congestion. Not to mention cheaper, and better for the environment (less gas).

I haven't heard much about addressing the legal and regulatory issues driverless cars are going to have to overcome, does anyone have more information on that? Obviously something will have to be done for when the car wrecks or malfunctions and damages something.

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#33

Post by JoshuaJBerk » Wed, May 28, 2014, 2:55 AM UTC

SilasX wrote: post #22

Forgive my crankiness, but: Does this say anything that the casual follower of self driving cars doesn't already know? All I got out of this was: - Self driving cars would be awesome, for well known reasons. - We have to use a lot of good sensors to make this work. - It's an interesting problem.

I'd argue that the entire propose is to expand beyond 'casual followers.' The challenge of self driving cars is ultimately a social (more than a technical) one. Distribution. PR. Legal.

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#34

Post by slyall » Wed, May 28, 2014, 2:55 AM UTC

rquantz wrote: post #15

It seems like a mistake to remove manual controls entirely, not necessarily because of safety concerns, but because there are a fair number of times when you need the car to go somewhere without having a route. I'm thinking of things like: Moving your car ten feet so somebody else can get out of the driveway; handling double parking during alternate side parking hours; moving the car because you were waiting to pick…

For manual controls your could just plug in something like a PlayStation controller into a USB port or even a Phone app via Wifi/Bluetooth to control the car.

No need to have permanent wheels, levers and pedals cluttering the "passenger" compartment.

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#35

Post by anigbrowl » Wed, May 28, 2014, 2:57 AM UTC

Mister_Snuggles wrote: post #18

rquantz wrote: post #15

It seems like a mistake to remove manual controls entirely, not necessarily because of safety concerns, but because there are a fair number of times when you need the car to go somewhere without having a route. I'm thinking of things like: Moving your car ten feet so somebody else can get out of the driveway; handling double parking during alternate side parking hours; moving the car because you were waiting to pick…

I think the eventual goal will be that most cars will be self-driving and that will negate most of those problems. I imagine that the vision of the future is a giant car-sharing program made up of self-driving cars all coordinated by Google. Think about it - you fire up an app to request a car, one appears at your door within a couple of minutes, takes you to work, then disappears. After work, a different car picks y…

Correct. That's one reason I think that Chicago's decision to privatize parking was an inspired one. The city got a great deal of criticism for giving a decades-long revenue concession to a private operator for a relatively low up-front cost, but all the critics assume a constant or increasing demand for parking based on historical usage patterns. I think usage patterns are going to change radically and that we'll see far lower traffic densities in the not-too-distant future.

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#36

Post by tb » Wed, May 28, 2014, 2:58 AM UTC

Oculus wrote: post #30

Tesla (or insert company willing to go big on electric cars) and Google really need to team up on this. Self driving cars have the potential to completely do away with owning personal cars. Imagine a new public/private service that allows people to travel where & when they want without having to deal with the hassles or cost of owning a car. With the added centralization, the headaches that electric cars cause can be…

This suggestion comes up whenever the topic of self-driving cars arises, but I wonder if access to a fleet of self-driving cars would be more akin to a cheaper taxi service than a replacement for car ownership. I suspect that many people would still prefer to own their own (self-driving) car rather than rent one from a fleet only when required. However the privately owned self-driving car could still drive itself to the nearest charging station when not in use so I agree with your premise that self-driving and electric car technology has some synergies. Being a high-tech automaker, Tesla would be an obvious licensee for Google's self-driving technology once it matures.

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#37

Post by stephengillie » Wed, May 28, 2014, 2:59 AM UTC

Please hire me!

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#38

Post by stormbrew » Wed, May 28, 2014, 3:00 AM UTC

spankalee wrote: post #2

So far Google's self-driving cars have been designed to have the driver take over in certain situations. I wonder how that works without a steering wheel and pedals. Are the cars manually drivable at all?

From the stories that go into detail about google's self-driving cars, it really seems like at this point the driver-take-over situation is really more like a breakpoint than an actual safety valve. It's there for when the computer has multiple reasonable options and the driver's judgement and awareness is needed to help resolve the ambiguity not just for that ride, but for future rides as well (as a sort of feedback).

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#39

Post by agildehaus » Wed, May 28, 2014, 3:05 AM UTC

dustinupdyke wrote: post #8

When the man with glasses gives his perspective, the enablement hits you. If you've any humanity, you feel the potential this technology brings to so many.

The man with the glasses is Steve Mahan, the blind man from their previous video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdgQpa1pUUE

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#40

Post by atwebb » Wed, May 28, 2014, 3:05 AM UTC

slyall wrote: post #34

rquantz wrote: post #15

It seems like a mistake to remove manual controls entirely, not necessarily because of safety concerns, but because there are a fair number of times when you need the car to go somewhere without having a route. I'm thinking of things like: Moving your car ten feet so somebody else can get out of the driveway; handling double parking during alternate side parking hours; moving the car because you were waiting to pick…

For manual controls your could just plug in something like a PlayStation controller into a USB port or even a Phone app via Wifi/Bluetooth to control the car. No need to have permanent wheels, levers and pedals cluttering the "passenger" compartment.

It's always nice to have an actual mechanical linkage to the steering and motion, if the electronics had issues it could just as well affect the BT link from the phone or controller. I'm not familiar enough with all makes and models out today and perhaps there are plenty of examples where wheels are already just "controllers".