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Python 3 can revive Python

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Re: Python 3 can revive Python

#191

Post by dragonwriter »

dorfsmay wrote: post #179
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity: why?

I can never remember the python 2 quirky, inconsistent syntax, I always have to look it up. PRINT TO A FILE, OR STDERR print >> sys.stderr, "blah" What are those '>' signs here? Why two? What happens if I use one only? Compare this to (py3k): print("blablah", file=sys.stderr) PRINT WITHOUT NEW LINE sys.stdout.write('blah') I can't use print to print? compare to: print("blah", end="") DISABLE FLIUSH In python 2 there…

> PRINT WITHOUT NEW LINE sys.stdout.write('blah') I can't use print to print?

You can. Compare the output from:

  print "foo"
  print "bar"
With that from:

  print "foo", 
  print "bar"

Re: Python 3 can revive Python

#192

Post by coldtea »

mangecoeur wrote: post #149
coldtea wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have seen neither evidence that python is "dieing" in any way Yeah. I'm sure there weren't that kind of hard numeric evidence about Perl dying either. Perhaps, you know, what languages are getting adoption and which might be lossing traction is more of a "sensing the buzz" and following community discussions affair, than some statistic bureau giving hard counts. > nor that people are dropping it because it lacks…

Anecdotes are not evidence. I'm sure that for every post about someone switching to Go from python, you find a post of someone switching to python from something else. Not to mention all the people who are just getting on fine and don't feel the need to tell everyone about it. One blog post does not a trend make. Some things that do make trends: Python stable in top 10 in TIOBE index: check Python increasingly popula…

>Anecdotes are not evidence

Actually they very much are. Anecdotes such as what we have, real and verifiable posts "our company switched to Go", are very much evidence of people switching to Go. Finding the mangitude of that is up to us -- there are no hard numbers available. But if you care about this, you have to gauge it from what information you have.

Oh, and in certain fields, like what's the next big thing in pop, fashion, etc -- and I'd argue: programming language, you don't have hard data (until it's too late). You have anecdptes and people murmuring stuff here and there, and you have to figure it out yourself.

Re: Python 3 can revive Python

#193

Post by sergiosgc »

octopus wrote: post #183
illumen wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next RHEL is going python 3 though I think? Fedora has done nicely over the last couple of years packaging everything for python 3 as well. A dozen or so packages left to do, but they are going well. Ubuntu, Debian, and Gnome have also been pushing to get to a python 3 use by the base system in the last releases... and are almost there as well. This of course has meant a lot more packages have been ported upstrea…

No major Linux distribution uses Python 3 as the default Python today. All of them use Python 2. Yes, they have a half backed Python 3 alternative for "almost" all packages ... We can discuss more in 4 years when the next Ubuntu LTS will be released. Apple has no interest to migrate their Python configuration scripts to Python 3. I use Python 3 for my side projects, so I compile it myself or install it with Brew on O…

I use Debian, and python 3 is one "apt-get install python3" away. Ubuntu probably includes the same packages in its repos. SuSE and Fedora are in the same boat (python3 in repos). Arch and Gentoo obviously package python 3. Redhat really is the black sheep here. There is no reason for the assertion that no major distro has more than a half baked python 3 alternative.

It is not really important if it is the default python or not. Python 3 is no less available than ruby or nodejs or any of the other contenders presented in this thread.

Re: Python 3 can revive Python

#194

Post by dragonwriter »

sergiosgc wrote: post #193
octopus wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No major Linux distribution uses Python 3 as the default Python today. All of them use Python 2. Yes, they have a half backed Python 3 alternative for "almost" all packages ... We can discuss more in 4 years when the next Ubuntu LTS will be released. Apple has no interest to migrate their Python configuration scripts to Python 3. I use Python 3 for my side projects, so I compile it myself or install it with Brew on O…

I use Debian, and python 3 is one "apt-get install python3" away. Ubuntu probably includes the same packages in its repos. SuSE and Fedora are in the same boat (python3 in repos). Arch and Gentoo obviously package python 3. Redhat really is the black sheep here. There is no reason for the assertion that no major distro has more than a half baked python 3 alternative. It is not really important if it is the default py…

> Ubuntu probably includes the same packages in its repos.

Ubuntu not only includes python3 in the base repos, I'm pretty sure its on the CD and used by some core packages now -- the conversion project that is ongoing but not yet complete is to completely eliminate python2 from the base install, which is not yet complete.

Re: Python 3 can revive Python

#195

Post by dangayle »

octopus wrote: post #183
illumen wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next RHEL is going python 3 though I think? Fedora has done nicely over the last couple of years packaging everything for python 3 as well. A dozen or so packages left to do, but they are going well. Ubuntu, Debian, and Gnome have also been pushing to get to a python 3 use by the base system in the last releases... and are almost there as well. This of course has meant a lot more packages have been ported upstrea…

No major Linux distribution uses Python 3 as the default Python today. All of them use Python 2. Yes, they have a half backed Python 3 alternative for "almost" all packages ... We can discuss more in 4 years when the next Ubuntu LTS will be released. Apple has no interest to migrate their Python configuration scripts to Python 3. I use Python 3 for my side projects, so I compile it myself or install it with Brew on O…

This is not correct. Arch Linux now uses Python 3 by default. (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/python)

Re: Python 3 can revive Python

#196

Post by arjn »

yid wrote: post #188
skriticos2 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I add that Python is excellent at data representation and transformation. You can easily write some test data and just include it in python, then transform it any way you feel you like to get intelligence out of it. With the standard library you can easily load a CSV file you exported form a data-set and then aggregate and evaluate it with only a few lines of code without much language overhead. Schema-less mixed con…

> I add that Python is excellent at data representation and transformation Indeed! It's a very practical extraction and reporting language.

I see what you did there :-)

Re: Python 3 can revive Python

#197

Post by [deleted] »

octopus wrote: post #183
illumen wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next RHEL is going python 3 though I think? Fedora has done nicely over the last couple of years packaging everything for python 3 as well. A dozen or so packages left to do, but they are going well. Ubuntu, Debian, and Gnome have also been pushing to get to a python 3 use by the base system in the last releases... and are almost there as well. This of course has meant a lot more packages have been ported upstrea…

No major Linux distribution uses Python 3 as the default Python today. All of them use Python 2. Yes, they have a half backed Python 3 alternative for "almost" all packages ... We can discuss more in 4 years when the next Ubuntu LTS will be released. Apple has no interest to migrate their Python configuration scripts to Python 3. I use Python 3 for my side projects, so I compile it myself or install it with Brew on O…

[deleted]

Re: Python 3 can revive Python

#198

Post by octopus »

dangayle wrote: post #195
octopus wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No major Linux distribution uses Python 3 as the default Python today. All of them use Python 2. Yes, they have a half backed Python 3 alternative for "almost" all packages ... We can discuss more in 4 years when the next Ubuntu LTS will be released. Apple has no interest to migrate their Python configuration scripts to Python 3. I use Python 3 for my side projects, so I compile it myself or install it with Brew on O…

This is not correct. Arch Linux now uses Python 3 by default. ( https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/python )

I was talking about major Linux distributions like in the first 3 or 4 (I don't want to dismiss Arch, but this more of an expert distribution than a major/popular one). Obviously, there are a lot of Linux distributions today, however most people will use some flavour of Debian, Ubuntu or RedHat.

Re: Python 3 can revive Python

#199

Post by dragonwriter »

dangayle wrote: post #195
octopus wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No major Linux distribution uses Python 3 as the default Python today. All of them use Python 2. Yes, they have a half backed Python 3 alternative for "almost" all packages ... We can discuss more in 4 years when the next Ubuntu LTS will be released. Apple has no interest to migrate their Python configuration scripts to Python 3. I use Python 3 for my side projects, so I compile it myself or install it with Brew on O…

This is not correct. Arch Linux now uses Python 3 by default. ( https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/python )

I think a number of distros include python3 by default, but -- per python's own standards (adopted as a result of disruption caused by Arch having python3 as /usr/bin/python -- it isn't linked to /usr/bin/python but to /usr/bin/python3; /usr/bin/python is (except on Arch) always python2. That's not a matter of which is "default python" (e.g., even if, as Ubuntu plans to, python3 is the only python installed (not merely "the default python"), it will only be /usr/bin/python3, not /usr/bin/python.)

This is about consistency given that major versions aren't intended to be backward compatible so scripts either fail or find a compatible python when using a shebang, not about what is "default".

Re: Python 3 can revive Python

#200

Post by octopus »

sergiosgc wrote: post #193
octopus wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No major Linux distribution uses Python 3 as the default Python today. All of them use Python 2. Yes, they have a half backed Python 3 alternative for "almost" all packages ... We can discuss more in 4 years when the next Ubuntu LTS will be released. Apple has no interest to migrate their Python configuration scripts to Python 3. I use Python 3 for my side projects, so I compile it myself or install it with Brew on O…

I use Debian, and python 3 is one "apt-get install python3" away. Ubuntu probably includes the same packages in its repos. SuSE and Fedora are in the same boat (python3 in repos). Arch and Gentoo obviously package python 3. Redhat really is the black sheep here. There is no reason for the assertion that no major distro has more than a half baked python 3 alternative. It is not really important if it is the default py…

Actually it is important which one is the default, most users will use what comes with the base install and this will slow the Python3 adoption at least for a few years.
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