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The Internet With A Human Face

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Re: The Internet With A Human Face

#51
post #35

This festive map shows seismic hazard in Northern California, where pretty much all the large Internet companies are based, along with a zillion startups. The ones that aren't here have their headquarters in an even deadlier zone up in Cascadia. (...) So even if you don't agree with my politics, maybe you'll agree with my geology. Let's not build a vast, distributed global network only to put everything in one place!…

Maciej is over-estimating the risk potential here. Or, to be more precise---the companies that have headquarters in the Valley are aware of the risk potential and have contingency plans to mitigate it.

Not that I'm against seeing some great software companies grow out of other geographic locations; I'm merely noting that it's not necessary to do so to avoid the threat of earthquake-related disruption. Threat known and accounted for.

Re: The Internet With A Human Face

#52

Much of what the author suggests in terms of regulation already exists in most European countries, and most of it pre-dates the commercial rise of the internet. Sure, much of the wording and enforcement is lagging behind today's reality, but the principles are clear: data about me is my data. Companies are not free to collect, collate and keep anything that they can get their hands on. Facebook, Google et al are brea…

Can you expand a bit upon which media coverage of the "right to be forgotten" verdict is scaremongering bullshit?

We may be tapping different media sources; most of what I've seen seems pretty level.

Re: The Internet With A Human Face

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On that note: The site you linked links to https://history.google.com/history/lookup , where you can see all of the searches Google associates to your account (if you have web history enabled). For me, this goes all the way back to 2006.

If you turn it off, and then turn it back on again, are all your searches still there?

There is also a "Delete All" option.

Which is frustrating, I wish I could set it to just keep the last 3 months of data, instead of having all or nothing.

Re: The Internet With A Human Face

#54
We read this, nod wisely, and go back to working on our centralized services for VC's who hope to own part of a monopoly. "One day, this will change" we think to ourselves.

Re: The Internet With A Human Face

#55
post #31

I'm now more hard-line than this on data privacy: I have come to believe that businesses should not be legally allowed to store any consumer data unless it's obvious to the consumer that it's absolutely required for the primary function of the service, and they should only be allowed to store data for that one function, with an exception if the consumer explicitly and voluntarily opts-in for each additional function.…

I don't think this will happen, for two reasons.

1. The issue of what is "in your interest" is not so black and white. For instance, one of the reasons Google is still so popular is because it more consistently returns the results we want. On many DDG discussions (or Bing-related discussions when it was still being discussed), this has been raised as a deal-breaking issue for many people. Google's results are often more relevant and useful. This is in part because of Google's vast store of consumer data. Now, you may argue that their results are better for other reasons, but the fact is that using their consumer data is an integral part of their ranking algorithm, and people like their ranking algorithm.

2. On a more cynical note, it seems that governments and corporations are aligned in their interest to collect as much data about citizens as possible. I doubt that the U.S. government will mandate a reduction in storage of consumer data, when they themselves benefit regularly from that data thanks to widespread use of NSLs and other legal and extralegal demands.

Re: The Internet With A Human Face

#56

The formatting of this article itself is something worth studying. It's brilliantly seductive to read and read all of it. The pictures/slides by each paragraph were like rewards, continually luring me to the next paragraph. For the first time in a long time. I read every single word. Not skimmed. Although I disagree with the idea of regulating how long behavioral data is saved. Not all behavioral data is sensitive. R…

I'm going to have to disagree--how often do you have a "created_at" field in your data? Moreover, how useful is it to see when data was collected? You pretty much need that to be able to model user behavior over time . If the deleted data breaks a report, that's in line with what the user wanted--failing that, you should've used a proper design pattern to transparently fill in the gaps. Let's not pretend that this wo…

I feel i should point out that will not use an index.

DELETE FROM Table WHERE CreateDate < DATEADD(year, -2, getdate())

Re: The Internet With A Human Face

#57
Just a note about the whole "buying $500 triggered the police to be alerted because of money laundering" notion...

The actual quote from the mashable article was:

>When her husband tried to buy $500 worth of Amazon gift cards with cash in order to get a stroller, a notice at the Rite Aid counter said the company had a legal obligation to report excessive transactions to the authorities.

So in reality, they made a big stink about the fact that they noticed that Rite Aid practices safe KYC laws and would report suspicious money-laundering activities to the government. As they must. Lest they expose themselves to money laundering charges as well.

That isn't to say that the clerk who sold them the $500 gift cards immediately picked up the phone as they were walking out the door and called the cops... that just means that if they notice you regularly buying $10,000+ worth of gift cards with cash only AND they just don't like the look of you in general, that they may pick up the phone and call the police.

Re: The Internet With A Human Face

#58
post #35

This festive map shows seismic hazard in Northern California, where pretty much all the large Internet companies are based, along with a zillion startups. The ones that aren't here have their headquarters in an even deadlier zone up in Cascadia. (...) So even if you don't agree with my politics, maybe you'll agree with my geology. Let's not build a vast, distributed global network only to put everything in one place!…

Maciej is over-estimating the risk potential here. Or, to be more precise---the companies that have headquarters in the Valley are aware of the risk potential and have contingency plans to mitigate it. Not that I'm against seeing some great software companies grow out of other geographic locations; I'm merely noting that it's not necessary to do so to avoid the threat of earthquake-related disruption. Threat known an…

Perhaps. A awful lot of wealthy and reputable companies thought they were solidly prepared against cracking attempts, too. It's harder to take their word for it now than it was five years ago.

Re: The Internet With A Human Face

#59

The formatting of this article itself is something worth studying. It's brilliantly seductive to read and read all of it. The pictures/slides by each paragraph were like rewards, continually luring me to the next paragraph. For the first time in a long time. I read every single word. Not skimmed. Although I disagree with the idea of regulating how long behavioral data is saved. Not all behavioral data is sensitive. R…

> His suggestion that all behavioral data be deleted after a certain period of time means every little piece of data collected must also have a timestamp. Inflating databases and costing money.

I'm not convinced that startups are such an inherent social good that they need to be insulated from the costs of responsible behavior.

> These obligations must be handed down from company to company during acquisitions. A company selling data about to expire will get acquired for a lot less than a company with fresh data. This may in turn cause a series of unforseen consequences in the acquisition market.

Working as intended. Forcing companies to be responsible will cut down on rash, irresponsible acquisitions.

Re: The Internet With A Human Face

#60
This is going to be a fairly controversial opinion, and I fully expect this text to end up about one shade off white approximately five minutes after posting (at least if my last few attempts mean anything, hence the following wall of text), but I notice a few things, without fail, whenever this topic comes up.

1) The advocates for all of these restrictions on data are incapable of doing so without resorting to flawed arguments, if not outright scaremongering.

A couple selected pieces from this article:

* "If you've ever wondered why Facebook is such a joyless place.."

Can't say I have. Perhaps your Facebook interactions are all dour and joyless because the people you interact with are dour and joyless online? In any case, it's hardly proper to speak this opinion as if it were fact.

* Comparison of ad targeting data to the "pink files" collected for the express purpose of destroying LGBTs, or data collected by various secret police.

Why this is problematic is left as an exercise for the reader.

I'm going to coin a phrase here. You know "reductio ad absurdum"? I'm going to call this "reductio ad missionem malum" - reduction to the worst case scenario. A close relative of the slippery slope.

In this case, the thesis appears to be "Lots of data is collected, therefore burn it all to the ground because it can be misused by the bad guys with guns."

2) Their arguments are not followed to their logical conclusion.

Much hand wringing is done (not by the author necessarily, but in general) about the world when everyone's "youthful indiscretions" and "every mistake" are available online, permanently, for the world to see. Fast forward a decade or so after that line is crossed. What happens when everyone has dirt on everyone? Does that not greatly lessen this impact? It's pretty hard for the guys in suits and dark glasses to blackmail you for something when that information is already out there.

It would be a type of "post-privacy" society, in other words. It is fundamentally different from what we have now, where we have a public personality and a private personality. This carries some positives, some negatives, and I feel it has yet to be discussed in an objective way.

3) Instead of advocating for greater privacy controls that make sense, they instead advocate for measures like the EU's misaimed and "feel good" "right to be forgotten" law.

Look at what the author advocates for:

* "Limit what kind of behavioral data websites can store. When I say behavioral data, I mean the kinds of things computers notice about you in passing—your search history, what you click on, what cell tower you're using."

I for one GREATLY LOOK FORWARD to the day when bureaucrats tell me how my nginx access logs must be formatted and stored (after all, they contain, fairly explicitly "what you click on"). I also look forward with the same enthusiasm to how such a thing will ever be enforced and to find out how much money will be allocated to this particular measure.

I think this is approaching the problem from the wrong angle.

The author says that this is an implementation problem. I, for one, do not want that implementation decided by people who don't understand how technology works. Unfortunately, that seems to be the case whenever you have tech-by-legislative-diktat.

Let me give you an example by way of the next item:

* "Enforce the right to delete. I should be able to delete my account and leave no trace in your system, modulo some reasonable allowance for backups."

Remember how I said the EU law was misaimed and "feel good"? A case where this would do more harm than good: Hacker News. Or indeed any other discussion forum or mailing list archive. Imagine a prolific and quality contributor here, like such as tpacek or even PG. Now imagine that for whatever reason, one of these people want to be "forgotten" and invoke this law.

Imagine what this would do to every single thread that person has ever participated in. Context would be utterly annihilated. This would eviscerate, in the most disgusting sense of the word, most any discussion forum.

I came up with this edge case in less than 60 seconds of thought, and I don't even begin to rank on the list of smartest people on HN. If I can locate such a problem with so little effort, that means both that the people who wrote this law don't know what the fuck they're on about, and it also means that worse edge cases probably exist.

I would say that the legislation needs to target behavior, not tech. Ensuring that private data remains so even after mergers, acquisitions, etc? Excellent. Penalties on companies that misstep? Great idea. Ensuring that government types have to go through the full judicial processes (none of this secret-court-rubber-stamp malarky) to access this data? Awesome!

Making me destroy my website because someone wants to disappear themselves? Less so.

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