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US man finds lost mother in an isolated Amazon tribe

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Re: US man finds lost mother in an isolated Amazon tribe

#91

Post by dang »

davidw wrote: post #50
dang wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity" actually covers each and every topic in the world. Not every story gratifies intellectual curiosity. Some (like celebrity gossip) gratify social curiosity. Others (like many political articles) gratify a desire for agitation, or victory. Others (like promotional pieces) are meant to gratify the author's desire for attention, or business. It's true that people d…

I don't think it's an unfair question: clarifying what's intended by "intellectually gratifying" would help a lot of people. Left so vague, some portion of people seem to find, say, political hit pieces to be absolutely fascinating. To me it's about learning something new that I didn't know and maybe hadn't even thought about before. If it's about politics or economics or by Reason.org or Krugman, it's probably part…

Sure. We clarify that all the time, in lots of comments (including the one you just replied to) and also at [1] and [2]. I like your clarification too. It reminds me of [1]:

What does "deeply interesting" mean? It means stuff that teaches you about the world. A story about a robbery, for example, would probably not be deeply interesting. But if this robbery was a sign of some bigger, underlying trend, then perhaps it could be.

The worst thing to post or upvote is something that's intensely but shallowly interesting. Gossip about famous people, funny or cute pictures or videos, partisan political articles, etc. If you let that sort of thing onto a news site, it will push aside the deeply interesting stuff, which tends to be quieter.

What I don't want to do is try to come up with some pseudo-precise definition that everybody (including me) would immediately find fault with. That said, if you or anyone wants to suggest an addition to [1] and [2] that would add substantial clarity, we'd love to hear it at hn@ycombinator.com.

p.s. But I don't really think it's definitional underspecification that leads people to post political hit pieces and so on to HN. I think those things are going to get posted regardless of how perfect the guidelines are; and other people will upvote them regardless; and other people—hopefully enough other people—will flag them. And moderators will do the rest. This tug-of-war between upvotes and flags is characteristic of HN's front page and goes on all the time. Some fluff is always going to sneak through temporarily.

1. http://ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

2. http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: US man finds lost mother in an isolated Amazon tribe

#92

Post by emiliobumachar »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #43

This is a fascinating story, because there's obviously a hidden narrative that the reader is supposed to play along with: rich, sophisticated asshole of a grad student takes advantage of a terribly young girl. Heartache ensues. One child suffers alcoholism. A ton of emoting going on. As I take this apart, however, I'm at a loss to where the story is. Is it wrong to study other cultures? No. Is it wrong to take a wife…

As someone else pointed out elsewhere in the thread, Yanomame do not travel to work and leave the wife. The man took two very different cultures and combined actions that are common in each but not the other. The combination was explosive.

Re: US man finds lost mother in an isolated Amazon tribe

#93

Post by mistermann »

phaus wrote: post #82
fallinghawks wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any 36 year-old man ... that finds it acceptable to marry a 9-12 year old and then start raping her when she's 13 is a piece of shit I would assume she fully expected to have sex with her husband, 13 years old or not. To suggest this was rape, against her will, is a bit preposterous and an incorrect usage of the word. At the same time I find it reprehensible that a 36 year old American, whose culture says underage…

>To suggest this was rape, against her will, is a bit preposterous and an incorrect usage of the word There are different kinds of rape. It doesn't really matter if a 13 year-old consents. How many 13 year-olds do you know that are mature enough to make such a decision?

I know plenty of 30+ year olds who aren't mature enough to make such a decision either. The age of 18 is just an arbitrary choice to plant a legal marker, because it's not practical to judge on a case by case basis.

Not that I'm condoning the behavior in this case....I'd think the intent of age of consent laws would be to protect those not yet able to protect themself with their own judgement - it should be obvious in this case, especially considering his age at the time, that taking a ~13 year old "wife" and proceeding to have sex with her when you had no intent to move there permanently was an incredibly wrong thing to do, by any moral compass.

Re: US man finds lost mother in an isolated Amazon tribe

#94

Post by quotient »

omegaworks wrote: post #65

>They also have no word for “love.” This is the kind of thing that makes the article unambiguously Western-ethnocentric. They obviously know the concept of love. His mother wept tears of joy at the arrival of her son.

I agree. That single sentence irritated me immensely. It was a ham-fisted and misguided attempt to emphasize the 'exoticness' of the Yanomami.

Re: US man finds lost mother in an isolated Amazon tribe

#95

Post by phaus »

mistermann wrote: post #93
phaus wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>To suggest this was rape, against her will, is a bit preposterous and an incorrect usage of the word There are different kinds of rape. It doesn't really matter if a 13 year-old consents. How many 13 year-olds do you know that are mature enough to make such a decision?

I know plenty of 30+ year olds who aren't mature enough to make such a decision either. The age of 18 is just an arbitrary choice to plant a legal marker, because it's not practical to judge on a case by case basis. Not that I'm condoning the behavior in this case....I'd think the intent of age of consent laws would be to protect those not yet able to protect themself with their own judgement - it should be obvious i…

I agree that SOME 30 year-olds aren't mature enough to make adult decisions, but on the other hand almost every single 13 year-old on the planet is too immature.

Re: US man finds lost mother in an isolated Amazon tribe

#96

Post by [deleted] »

phaus wrote: post #53
DanBC wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old men marrying children is common in many parts of the world. http://www.unicef.org/protection/57929_58008.html http://tooyoungtowed.org/

>Old men marrying children is common in many parts of the world. There are quite a few shitty people in the world. As much as many of us hate to admit it, there are also quite a few shitty cultures. Any 36 year-old man, from any culture that has ever existed, that finds it acceptable to marry a 9-12 year old and then start raping her when she's 13 is a piece of shit. Any culture or individual that condones such behav…

[deleted]

Re: US man finds lost mother in an isolated Amazon tribe

#97

Post by ScottBurson »

jacquesm wrote: post #47
phpnode wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thanks for your reply! I wasn't questioning anything in particular, but wow this article makes his dad sound like a terrible person.

Is this the right place to divulge information about a third party? I realize there is an article about him posted here and that it already contains lots of details that would normally be considered private, however I feel that somehow if you have questions about this it might be better to take it off-line. Especially parts about his father and mother's relationship in the present, it has absolutely no business being…

'jameswburke claims to be his friend. I think we can leave the question of what to reveal to his discretion. What he's said so far doesn't seem to me to be particularly sensitive, nor any more private than what was in the article.

Re: US man finds lost mother in an isolated Amazon tribe

#98

Post by [deleted] »

fallinghawks wrote: post #78
phaus wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Old men marrying children is common in many parts of the world. There are quite a few shitty people in the world. As much as many of us hate to admit it, there are also quite a few shitty cultures. Any 36 year-old man, from any culture that has ever existed, that finds it acceptable to marry a 9-12 year old and then start raping her when she's 13 is a piece of shit. Any culture or individual that condones such behav…

> Any 36 year-old man ... that finds it acceptable to marry a 9-12 year old and then start raping her when she's 13 is a piece of shit I would assume she fully expected to have sex with her husband, 13 years old or not. To suggest this was rape, against her will, is a bit preposterous and an incorrect usage of the word. At the same time I find it reprehensible that a 36 year old American, whose culture says underage…

[deleted]

Re: US man finds lost mother in an isolated Amazon tribe

#99

Post by noonespecial »

omegaworks wrote: post #65

>They also have no word for “love.” This is the kind of thing that makes the article unambiguously Western-ethnocentric. They obviously know the concept of love. His mother wept tears of joy at the arrival of her son.

Indeed. They probably have 10 different words for all of the different contexts and shades of it. "Love" is a ridiculously deficient and imprecise word.

Re: US man finds lost mother in an isolated Amazon tribe

#100

Post by chockablock »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #80

> Once admitted [to the hospital, Yarima] sprung herself out of bed and attempted to give birth by squatting in the corner of the hospital room. That one was probably highlighted to emphasize the weirdness, or scandal, or ick factor, just like the first excerpt. But this is most probably one thing the Yanomami got right, as a simple matter of physiological fact. I have recently learned from my manual therapist that l…

>...this position is widespread in our countries because it is more convenient for the doctor.

Another reason is because they have received epidural anesthesia which stops them from being able to move around safely.

Even with the advent of lighter 'walking' epidurals, many hospitals (including the quite progressive one in SF where my daughter was born last year, with a doula in attendance) still insist on the mother staying in bed after receiving the epidural as a matter of policy (for liability reasons).

>Squatting on the other hand is one of the best positions, leading to less pain, much faster birth, less risks for both the baby and the mother…

Well, 'less pain' except for the epidural thing. I have nothing but respect for women who choose 'natural childbirth', but I think it's a hard sell to many moms.

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