We have almost recovered to the number of CS degrees issued in 1985.
I never understood that factoid, and always assumed it was an illusion --- we must have manyfold more computer-related degrees now that back in 1985
Responding to the Explosion of Student Interest in Computer Science [pdf]
51–60 of 201 posts
Re: Responding to the Explosion of Student Interest in Computer Science [pdf]
#52How about "Possibly, they see people making ridiculous amounts of money in tech and want a piece of it?"
Could you please forward me jobs advertised that have the real possibility of "ridiculous amounts of money"? All the programming jobs I see are about 90k?
Re: Responding to the Explosion of Student Interest in Computer Science [pdf]
#53This is evidence that programming has become a skill akin to literacy. The migration seems similar to the hypothetical situation in which universities and society had primarily been based on an oral tradition of communication, and then this fancy new technology called "writing" appeared (at first only in "Departments of orthography science"). Some of those who majored in "orthography science" would go on to study it,…
"Who wants to place bets on when country development metrics include "population % who know how to code" ... ? "
Oh, an example of how CS people overestimate their importance, how funny.
Dentists, doctors don't need to know how to code.
Teachers don't need to know how to code. Maybe it's better that they do (some of them, still). The same with other professions.
Humanity survived up to the 1980/70s without computers being widespread. Their problems were mostly solved without it.
Literacy is something different, you can read a hundred year old English without many issues. It's much more universal than the code being used today.
People should learn how to cook for example, before learning how to code.
Re: Responding to the Explosion of Student Interest in Computer Science [pdf]
#54Before people start preaching 'coding is the new reading/writing', let's get to high school CS requirements first (like any other common science/math class).
Also, I think there's a sweet spot between a full-on academic CS degree and a level of software proficiency to make someone useful on the job. Whether it be data analytics or basic web development, you don't NEED to know the ins and outs of automata theory or compilers to be a 'coder' with hands-on skills.
Re: Responding to the Explosion of Student Interest in Computer Science [pdf]
#55This is evidence that programming has become a skill akin to literacy. The migration seems similar to the hypothetical situation in which universities and society had primarily been based on an oral tradition of communication, and then this fancy new technology called "writing" appeared (at first only in "Departments of orthography science"). Some of those who majored in "orthography science" would go on to study it,…
I completely disagree. Having everyone knowing how to code is the opposite of specialisation. It's inefficient and pointless. If a certain profession needs a piece of software, it's much more efficient for specialist developers to consult with domain experts, write that software, and sell it into the industry. Having every (for example) doctor being able to code adds negligible value, and I would argue the opportunit…
> A society of part-time coders would do nothing but produce a lot of badly-written toy programs. What's the point?
Maybe you are embarassed by the content of github, but many of us feel it is changing the word for the better.
An Excel jockey writing macros -> better spreadsheets.
A writer who can analyze and restructure their story, wihout laboriously poring and cutting and pasting -> better stories.
There was a time when 'writing' was a specialist activity best left to professionals. Imagine if that never changed?
We don't need everyone to be an anatomist, but certainly we should all know enough about our own bodies to feed and exercise them properly. I hope we never live in a world where we only eat what The Nutritionist hands to us, and we only move our bodies in the way The Physiologist instructs us.
Re: Responding to the Explosion of Student Interest in Computer Science [pdf]
#56What I'd be interested in, if anyone has a perspective to share, is whether we should be worried? Will the job market change? Will our salaries stagnate or fall?
Personally, I think we are at a peak for outrageous programmer salaries. The market is currently correcting itself.
Programmer salaries aren't outrageous. Most peoples' real incomes have declined substantially, making programmer salaries look high. US GDP is $15.68 trillion (2012), with 146 million people employed (April 2014). That's $107,000 per worker. US median wage is around $27,000.
Programmers are one of the few occupations that have managed to retain bargaining power.
Compare the lifestyle (e.g. house, vehicle, ability to have a single income household with kids without getting into massive debt) a programmer in the Bay Area can buy right now compared to the lifestyle a plumber could buy forty years ago. The plumber of 1974 comes out ahead.
The only reason everyone hasn't noticed this huge decline is because the inflation numbers are rubbish and everyone has been kept distracted by wedge issues and wars.
Re: Responding to the Explosion of Student Interest in Computer Science [pdf]
#57We have almost recovered to the number of CS degrees issued in 1985.
I never understood that factoid, and always assumed it was an illusion --- we must have manyfold more computer-related degrees now that back in 1985
In 1982 Time's "Person" of the year was the The Computer ( http://content.time.com/time/interactive/0,31813,1681791,00....) and I can remember a MIT CS professor, I think it was Michael Dertouzos, bemoaning how this would further skew enrollment. (Note also that at that time most of the department's majors were on an EE track.)
Computers were red hot in a way I'm not sure even the dot.com boom reached, and that boom and bust cycle was perhaps longer.
Re: Responding to the Explosion of Student Interest in Computer Science [pdf]
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Experienced engineers will still have an advantage in a job search. Few things to consider: - First job: Getting the first one is always the hardest, the whole needs experience, but where do I get experience if no one gives me the chance scenario. Luckily programmers can have highly visable projects. - Job markets do change: It's about supply and demand. US programmers makes more, especially in the SF Bay Area than a…
" First job " That's an outstanding point, especially in today's economy. It sucks that a conventional programming career generally ends at age 35-40, but for someone not wedded to a programming career, and who has a modicum of talent and interest in the field, yeah, that'll get them started. They will then have plenty of time to arrange their first transition into another career, and they will have learned a lot of…
> It sucks that a conventional programming career generally ends at age 35-40,
That's an illusion, created by two factors:
* Many people choose to leave the "coder" job as they age, and mentally it's a difficult field to enter if you never coded befo reage 35.
* The explosion of the size industry means that the number of young novices dwarfs the number of older veterans. You can see this now, as the young novices of the 2000s bust are still in demand when they are now veterans.
Re: Responding to the Explosion of Student Interest in Computer Science [pdf]
#59Love the "have a beer while the students use Coursera" approach. As a student this would be amazing.
Re: Responding to the Explosion of Student Interest in Computer Science [pdf]
#60This is evidence that programming has become a skill akin to literacy. The migration seems similar to the hypothetical situation in which universities and society had primarily been based on an oral tradition of communication, and then this fancy new technology called "writing" appeared (at first only in "Departments of orthography science"). Some of those who majored in "orthography science" would go on to study it,…
I completely disagree. Having everyone knowing how to code is the opposite of specialisation. It's inefficient and pointless. If a certain profession needs a piece of software, it's much more efficient for specialist developers to consult with domain experts, write that software, and sell it into the industry. Having every (for example) doctor being able to code adds negligible value, and I would argue the opportunit…
Someone a thousand years ago would have dictated to his scribe the following:
"Having everyone knowing how to read and write is the opposite of specialisation. It's inefficient and pointless. If a certain profession needs a document, it's much more efficient for specialist scribes to consult with domain experts, write that document, and sell it into the industry. Having every (for example) doctor being able to read and write adds negligible value, and I would argue the opportunity cost is awful. If my doctor has a choice to become a very mediocre writer or a better doctor, I would hope they choose the latter.
A society of part-time readers and writers would do nothing but produce a lot of badly-written texts. What's the point?"
The comparison with literacy is incredibly apt. Even though very few of us moderns are professional writers, we all benefit by knowing the basic abstractions of letters and words. In the future, everyone will benefit from knowing basics of computation. Probably in ways we can't imagine now, just as an ancient Egyptian scribe could not have conceived of "commoners" writing YouTube comments or texting "whatup u?" to a friend.