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Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade

jacquesmattheij.com

221–228 of 228 posts

Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade

#221
I was a little surprised to see Gorilla get kicked out. My understanding is that among Go developers, stdlib net/http + the Gorilla toolkit was the de facto standard approach.

People are experimenting with new frameworks, e.g., beego, revel, martini, etc, but I don't think any of them are stable enough to meet your stringent criteria in that regard.

It seems to me (as an outsider looking in) that the Go community is relatively "anti-framework", instead preferring libraries, like Gorilla, for special oomph in routing or sessions or what have you.

I also think it's worth determining what you think the next decade's high level architecture will be: JSON api backends with fancy JS frontends, or more along the lines of standard Rails, Yii, etc? That will drastically change the type of web framework to choose.

Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade

#222
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe thats retail only.

My product keys have come from MSDN.

Your not using the Partner license, your likely on Bizspark or a bog standard MSDN subscription. Partners pay the most, then get treated like an ahole.

Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade

#224
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My product keys have come from MSDN.

Your not using the Partner license, your likely on Bizspark or a bog standard MSDN subscription. Partners pay the most, then get treated like an a hole.

If buying MSDN works out to be cheaper than the Partner program, why not buy MSDN licenses instead?

Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade

#225
I can't follow Jacques' reasoning when it comes to any of this. His first choice would have been a PHP framework (in 2014!), yet he goes on to criticize a bunch of languages which have sane == operators seemingly on the basis of his gut reaction to their very existence, while asserting things like "Python is like driving on the autobahn without guard rails" and "Lua is the sweet spot between Ruby and Python." That might be true if Python had shipped with exactly two data structures, and Ruby with zero, and neither of them had integers.

This is all before the frameworks are even discussed, which are included and dismissed for reasons just as arbitrary. Smaller frameworks like Sinatra are discarded because they can't handle the complex logic that flash cards demand, Django's out because of the whole auto safety thing, and we all know that ExpressJS didn't show up at Jaques' birthday party that one time. Play's out because Scala is unfamiliar, despite that not being a specific quality of Scala and just something that's true in general of programming languages one hasn't bothered to learn.

So the final list contains some more PHP horror shows and a few Java and Go frameworks to make things look democratic. Thankfully, Rails makes an appearance, but it feels like this is just because it was lucky enough not to get hit by a dart.

Let it be a lesson -- we all procrastinate, but when you get to the point where you're writing blog posts about dozens of languages and tools, none of which you have direct experience with, the best thing is just to pick something, do what you'd meant to do in the first place (although you will note that writing the flash card app was itself a way to procrastinate on learning Romainian), and discuss the pros and cons of the tools you chose once you actually know what they are.

Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade

#226
post #54

Might as well go with the one which sparked the wave which inspired most of these. Rails is pretty much the premier MVC framework. If you are going to go MVC, go with Rails. If we are looking for an alternative to Rails, then we are probably looking for an alternative to MVC, and none of these mentioned choices fit the bill. I wonder when the day will come that we finally get sick of recreating all the libraries that…

i think only people who still code RoR tend to see it as the center of the universe.

others may appreciate its influence but can see that a lot of what it offered is just a convenient packaging of what is available in other languages, presented in a more inviting "DIY" form. I used to be a Rails guy & have since learned Java. There is not much I miss, if anything.

I could definitely do some things faster in Rails but now... I don't know, given the task of creating a CRUD interface in Rails or Java i think i would be faster in Rails but not by a wide margin. If I had to add any side-effects/system integrations/free-form code/advanced persistence with the expectation that it will be performant & scalable -- I would be lightyears quicker in Java.

The kicker for me though is that I would expect the Rails application to need a gem upgrade, security patches, server migration, or minor refactor to comply with plugin API changes at least every 6 months. I think the Java app could sit on a cloud host for a decade without any maintenance required (provided it implements pretty open specs).

I mainly code node.js & client-side js for hobby projects, but am considering Dropwizard or Clojure instead of node (I only use this because my apps are pretty json heavy so I'm trying out mongodb and want to go full-stack js). I know I found it daunting to leave Rails & go to more free-form code, but now I find it really liberating & I'm not scared of much. There is a Java lib for pretty much everything. NPM is pretty well-stocked too.

Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade

#227
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your not using the Partner license, your likely on Bizspark or a bog standard MSDN subscription. Partners pay the most, then get treated like an a hole.

If buying MSDN works out to be cheaper than the Partner program, why not buy MSDN licenses instead?

MS Partner licensing gives you broader usage, through to production servers, Office etc. Pretty sure MSDN is dev or training only. Plus why pay twice, shit should just work without all the BS.

Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade

#228
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a few concrete examples, out of curiosity?

Well, I basically went "fuck this" after looking at Haskell for a while, but there's surfaced some links in the comments (thanks, akavel) and they provide some examples: >>=, >>, >, , >, $, ., !!, !, , :, ::, \, @, ~, - , -> Taken together the syntax makes no effort whatsoever to be self-explanatory. I could handle it if it was the only programming language I would ever use, but in the polyglot world we live in and w…

bind, ??, more than, fmap, ??, monoid, f $ x f(x), f . g . x == f(g(x)), x !! 1 == x[1], seq, ??... and \ is lambda.
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