Live data from Hacker News

Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade

jacquesmattheij.com

191–200 of 228 posts

Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade

#191

Goodness, just pick a framework and start building. There's no way you're going to make the right choice so just choose whichever language you're most comfortable coding in and start building. Creating 12 prototypes to narrow down 12 frameworks? Does this strike anyone else as an insane waste of time?

In the long run this should save me time.

"It'll save time in the long run!" http://xkcd.com/974/

Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade

#192
post #17

I (naturally) think that the article's summarily dismissing Haskell is unfortunate. It's probably just the result of poor PR on Haskell's part. Haskell is not only for surpassingly intelligent people, or even optimized for them. If anything, it's the opposite: one of its core tenants is that we're not smart enough to reason about our programs in most languages. Much of the design work focuses on unloading complexity…

I also think "it shines in finance" is a little weird. It's used in finance because it's an industry with a premium on correctness and a sympathy for math, but I don't think it's generally better suited to solving those problems than to solving other problems. If I had to point to one area that Haskell is clearly better at than "mainstream" languages it would probably be tree manipulation - and as a consequence compilers - due to structural pattern matching (for small stuff) and evaluation strategies (for larger and more abstract stuff).

Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade

#193
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generics also were not a new idea back then...and let's not forget Gilad and Martin, whose backgrounds weren't haskell.

Does anybody know when C++ got templates?

Certainly before 1994, given that Stepanov was already writing about his Standard Template Library for C++.

Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade

#195
post #23

If you are still considering PHP frameworks, then your choices are really Symfony or Laravel (maybe Zend at a stretch). Yes, Laravel does have a high "bus factor", but for me personally its the number one choice in terms of ecosystem, features, support and community,

I am really off the PHP train now, but I'd also recommend to have a close look at http://www.phalconphp.com/en/ .

Their approach is to have the whole framework compiled as an extension. Seems well documented.

Personally, after years of dealing with PHP and the regularly occurring panic when inevitably something is going wrong during deployment, I'd consider PHP's dependency on other moving parts a bit of a nono. There's just too many pain points around deployment, versioning, server conf, extensions that are compiled in etc. Admittedly this has gotten much much better since the advent of composer and tools like chef, vagrant etc, but that's another whole learning curve right there. Compare that to go, where you just compile your binary, scp that up and then launch it. Done!

Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade

#196
post #120

Since the author is already familiar with PHP, why not try Hack? You'll get to keep all of your PHP stuff, with increased performance on the HHVM. Sure, there is no real hack framework yet.. but you could help build one. Plus, all your PHP frameworks will work fine in the meantime.

A Hack framework might be a good summer project.

Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The syntax of Haskell is not that big. Neither is APL's syntax. Too much operator overloading is just a bad idea.

There is not really any operator overloading going on. You can implement Monoid for your data structure, but as long as you follow the laws... well, you are implementing operations in the correct way, there is no abuse there, nothing that's surprising and going to bite whoever is reading your code. But one thing where Haskell errs, in my opinion, is in allowing arbitrary infix operators with random ASCII characters,…

And so with Scala (user-defined operators) and Clojure (macros).

Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade

#198
post #23

If you are still considering PHP frameworks, then your choices are really Symfony or Laravel (maybe Zend at a stretch). Yes, Laravel does have a high "bus factor", but for me personally its the number one choice in terms of ecosystem, features, support and community,

I am really off the PHP train now, but I'd also recommend to have a close look at http://www.phalconphp.com/en/ . Their approach is to have the whole framework compiled as an extension. Seems well documented. Personally, after years of dealing with PHP and the regularly occurring panic when inevitably something is going wrong during deployment, I'd consider PHP's dependency on other moving parts a bit of a nono. Ther…

To add to that: I also think that these days you will need to have some sort of JS framework on top of your server stack. Angular and Ember are bot nice to work with, React would be something I'd look into next time.

In this context (Restful JSON or XML from the server, JS client consuming it) Go again makes a great choice, as it's coming with great JSON and XML capabilities that make it easy to marshal/unmarshal into GO types.

Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade

#199
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you recommend any framework for Haskell web development? I really liked toying around with the language, but I hit a brick wall when trying to build something "real" with it - it's hard to find decent guides that made the jump between the basics of writing functions, using recursion, etc and using the language on a full-on application. Given I have been working with web development in Ruby and PHP for years, I wou…

I have been using Yesod in my day job with great success. It also comes along with a free online book: http://www.yesodweb.com/book Other popular alternative is Snap framework.

Happstack and Scotty are probably a little simpler for getting started imho
Post reply on HN