Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US 'in denial' over poor maths standards

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 103 posts

Re: US 'in denial' over poor maths standards

#31

Post by anigbrowl »

wil421 wrote: post #7
noobermin wrote: post #2

I think the thing that distresses me the most is that any attempt that has been made to alleviate the situation (like the common core) has been stamped "big government" by people who seem to _not_ understand the urgency of this situation. I'm out of ideas. What do we do? EDIT: added a not. Wow did that change what I meant to say.

I think its our job to teach our own kids, if the govt cant do anything because of all the naysayers and doubters then its left to upon the parents. My parents challenged me in Math at a young age and I was always a step ahead in school. Also as a nation we need to stop putting everyone on the same playing field. Students will always be left behind lets start focusing on programs that will help the smart and the chal…

That's not helpful for any kids whose parents are bad at math. You're condemning them to a lifetime of ignorance because of their parents' deficiencies.

Re: US 'in denial' over poor maths standards

#32

Post by relaytheurgency »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #16
josephschmoe wrote: post #4

In the US, the quality of your math education is determined by where you live on the community level, usually by property value. Within 10 miles, you can have both a school that performs on par with Sweden and another that performs on par with Turkey. What does this mean? Things are way worse for the poor here than this study even acknowledges. If you're poor in America, your best chance at a good education is by raf…

I totally agree and am depressed that places like inner cities have such a hard time getting more charter schools and competition that would give these kids and their families a shot at a decent education. Is it politics? Teachers unions? Getting good admin people? What's holding back these places from getting ahead? As a comparison, my sister lives on the outskirts of a large metro area and their school has been tea…

>What's holding back these places from getting ahead?

There is no motivation for someone to teach in inner cities beyond a sense of civic duty. I live in a city with terrible (unaccredited) schools. Students in those schools are often openly hostile to teachers and faculty. Administration is often on the verge of a breakdown due to the pressure to "turn things around." Why would anyone want to teach there? I know I didn't want to.

If you think it's a travesty that talented and bright teachers want to avoid inner cities then you should do it yourself. That's what I say to anyone who brings this up. Often I will be told, "But that's where you're needed!"

"So are you," is my response.

Re: US 'in denial' over poor maths standards

#34

Post by relaytheurgency »

alanlewis wrote: post #22
relaytheurgency wrote: post #18

I taught high school physics for a semester and the math abilities of these students (many considered top students) were abysmal. Somehow several of these students had received As and Bs in Algebra 2 but were unable to transform f = ma into a = f/m. They also had a very flawed understanding of how to solve quadratics. I later realized that the issue is that mathematics is often taught as procedural. Students are taug…

Well, surely more standardized testing will fix that right up.

Standardized testing isn't a meant to teach skills. It is meant to assess skills. No one is proposing that more standardized testing will teach students how to do mathematics.

Re: US 'in denial' over poor maths standards

#35

Post by esbranson »

kevinpet wrote: post #20
yonran wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? I just looked it up[1]. The common core math standard looks very readable and reasonable, and it’s not even very big (93 pages). Is there anything in particular that you found confusing, inappropriate, or overly prescriptive? For example, in Grade 7, there are about 50 requirements, one of which is “Use proportional relationships to solve multistep ratio and percent problems. Examples: simple interest, tax, mar…

Common core invents new arithmetic techniques that no one knows. It's the worst idiocy of reinventing the world.

[Citation needed]

Re: US 'in denial' over poor maths standards

#36

Post by psychometry »

aurelian wrote: post #15
josephschmoe wrote: post #4

In the US, the quality of your math education is determined by where you live on the community level, usually by property value. Within 10 miles, you can have both a school that performs on par with Sweden and another that performs on par with Turkey. What does this mean? Things are way worse for the poor here than this study even acknowledges. If you're poor in America, your best chance at a good education is by raf…

Could this be explained in part by people who are good at math tending to make more money than people who are bad at math? http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/2...

If that's a component, it's a relatively insignificant one. Regression to the mean would likely take care of that advantage across generations.

Re: US 'in denial' over poor maths standards

#37

Post by wil421 »

Jtsummers wrote: post #9
wil421 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think its our job to teach our own kids, if the govt cant do anything because of all the naysayers and doubters then its left to upon the parents. My parents challenged me in Math at a young age and I was always a step ahead in school. Also as a nation we need to stop putting everyone on the same playing field. Students will always be left behind lets start focusing on programs that will help the smart and the chal…

> not one program for all. It wasn't "one program for all" in any of the public schools I attended in the US. Admittedly, we send everyone to high school (well, offer it, some students fail out early, some are failed by their teachers, others by their family). But once in high school, all 4 states (VA, NC, GA, NV) I'm familiar with (admittedly dated, 90s) had different tracks and graduation requirements. At least two…

I dont think common core was around in the 90s. Besides the tracks still share common math requirements. I believe at my school the only difference was you didnt have to take Math your senior year for vocational. (Of course honors/AP would be taking advanced courses).

I was trying to say common core was "one program for all".

Re: US 'in denial' over poor maths standards

#39

Post by Balgair »

relaytheurgency wrote: post #18

I taught high school physics for a semester and the math abilities of these students (many considered top students) were abysmal. Somehow several of these students had received As and Bs in Algebra 2 but were unable to transform f = ma into a = f/m. They also had a very flawed understanding of how to solve quadratics. I later realized that the issue is that mathematics is often taught as procedural. Students are taug…

I remember when I 'got' algebra. I was in 10th grade in Chem class. We were using mols = (mols/Volume)*Volume. For weeks, I had no idea what was going on. I just plain did not understand algebra whatsoever. But finally, at the end of a lab class where we actually mixed things and then found the concentrations and volumes, I finally figured out that these algebraic equations actually tied back into the real world. This was not for lack of trying on my part, my teacher's part, or the schools. I just plain did not understand. I think it was a developmental issue for me. I wasn't ready to chemo-mentally, therefore I just muddeled along frustrating everyone including myself.

I say this because I went on to get a BS in physics from a UC. Obviously I learned math very well later on. But in 9th grade, I was unable to learn anything harder than long division. I was a 'left-behind' child due to my brain. Nothing, I believe, could have helped me. Not all the tutoring in the world. My brain wasn't old enough then.

Re: US 'in denial' over poor maths standards

#40

Post by pessimizer »

zaphar wrote: post #38

Only slightly related to the article actually but when did the pluralized term math s become a thing. I feel like it had to be recent but I've been noticing it everywhere lately.

Commonwealth people generally say maths.

http://www.word-detective.com/2011/05/math-vs-maths/

Post reply on HN