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How I Feel as Young Father Involved in Early-stage Startup

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Re: How I Feel as Young Father Involved in Early-stage Startup

#61

Post by josefresco »

lkrubner wrote: post #35

I think Paul Graham summed up the situation fairly well when he wrote: "Economically, you can think of a startup as a way to compress your whole working life into a few years. Instead of working at a low intensity for forty years, you work as hard as you possibly can for four. This pays especially well in technology, where you earn a premium for working fast." and this: "Combine all these multipliers, and I'm claimin…

This is one of the areas where I think PG has it completely wrong. Sure if you're a 20-something with no kids/life and only care about your startup, you can code 24/7. But many of us don't fit into this stereotypical startup-founder box that PG and others have created.

Some of us have kids, some have partners, some have ... a life!

Does PG really want a bunch of code obsessed, single minded founders with no hobbies or life outside of their startup? I can't imagine he does, and as a result he should revise some of his advice.

If PG is looking to make a quick buck, churn and burn founders than it all makes sense. But if PG is looking to help founders build sustainable businesses, he should be telling them to clock out, and open your eyes to the world (and people) around you.

Re: How I Feel as Young Father Involved in Early-stage Startup

#62

Post by 127001brewer »

lmg643 wrote: post #34
Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #30

"My dear Daughter, Wait for me." Of all the things that might happen, much as we'd like it to be different, I can guarantee that this is one which won't happen. However upsetting it may be now (or looking back in the future), time isn't going to wait for you and all those firsts, all those events and experiences you miss, won't wait and won't happen again. We tell ourselves it isn't a choice but for many of us it is.…

I would agree with this. People have a way of heavily discounting the present in favor of the uncertain future. It becomes a habit, almost an addiction, to medicate feelings in the present (FUD - perhaps their anxiety over being a parent, even). A friend of mine uses the term "future tripping" - I like it. I will give this guy a lot of credit for honesty. It's tempting to pretend that starting a company is something…

From the wife/kid's perspective - they want you to be happy, but they also want you to be present and engaged.

From my own experiences - obviously your mileage may vary - but your family (and especially your wife if you have young kids!) needs you to be present and engaged.

Yes, as others have said, PG has said that you could compress your working life into a few years but what if you're holding a losing lotto ticket at the end of the day? Because you are gambling with your time.

We all make compromises and sacrifices with our lives - and we all have to live with those choices. Whether these are "right" or "wrong" is really for the individual to decide.

Re: How I Feel as Young Father Involved in Early-stage Startup

#63

Post by normloman »

Oh for fucks sake, go home. This is your kid we're talking about. If getting a 9 to 5 job means spending more time with your kid, I promise you won't regret it. Better yet, keep your start up, just work a regular day. You only think you need to work long hours. You don't. You'll be more productive just working a regular schedule.

I can't believe we're even debating this. Reality check people: Your kids should come before your job.

Re: How I Feel as Young Father Involved in Early-stage Startup

#64

Post by laohu »

The endless "hours matter" debate.

For me, it's been a revolution at RescueTime. I had a 5 year old and new born when I started.

You structure your day right, you should be able to get done what is useful in a day's work in around 5-6 hours for most days. Otherwise, you need to restructure your day. You're doing something wrong-- excess communications, excess task-switching, excess research, over-engineering or something.

By consistently paying attention to getting the most out of the hours between 0830/0900 and 1530/1600, I am able to get at least 3-4 hours a day with my kids. There's the odd day where I get back on the computer after they are in bed.

The simple truth is you can restructure your work to match your life with kids, you cannot restructure your kids to match your life with work.

Re: How I Feel as Young Father Involved in Early-stage Startup

#67

Post by Rudism »

gingerlime wrote: post #60
Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #30

"My dear Daughter, Wait for me." Of all the things that might happen, much as we'd like it to be different, I can guarantee that this is one which won't happen. However upsetting it may be now (or looking back in the future), time isn't going to wait for you and all those firsts, all those events and experiences you miss, won't wait and won't happen again. We tell ourselves it isn't a choice but for many of us it is.…

Couldn't agree more. The post is very well written and reads like a poem, but the message is terrible on all counts. It sounds like a soldier being forced to go to battle crying for the family he leaves behind, where in fact it's entirely his own choices. And if it's some sort of an internal torment, being torn between two passions that conflict with one another, then I would suggest he gets a grip and decide which s…

I share this sentiment. The author needs to consider which thing will cause him more regret in the long term--working a more normal schedule and potentially missing out on whatever rewards living the startup life may give him, or definitely missing out on his daughter's childhood.

For me it would be (and is--I have two sons) a no-brainer. I actually am working at a start-up, but it's one that places a high value on work-life balance so I never feel that I have to work outside of 9-5. I have cracked open the laptop on the occasional evening just because I enjoy what I'm working on, but I definitely wouldn't want to miss this period of my kids' lives for anything. They're only this young once.

Re: How I Feel as Young Father Involved in Early-stage Startup

#69

Post by mantis369 »

I think you have to pick one. Startup or kids. You can work at a burnout pace for 5 years in the hope of getting rich, or you can be there for your young children. In my opinion, if you're going to try the startup thing, there's nothing stopping you from having kids afterwards. Except that if your startup(s) didn't succeed, your skills might translate perfectly into a career that can sustain a family. And having gone that route, you might have missed out on opportunities to bond with a good partner.

Re: How I Feel as Young Father Involved in Early-stage Startup

#70

Post by kimdouglasmason »

lkrubner wrote: post #35

I think Paul Graham summed up the situation fairly well when he wrote: "Economically, you can think of a startup as a way to compress your whole working life into a few years. Instead of working at a low intensity for forty years, you work as hard as you possibly can for four. This pays especially well in technology, where you earn a premium for working fast." and this: "Combine all these multipliers, and I'm claimin…

Most startups fail. Throwing some of the best years of your life away and shirking parental responsibilities for a remote chance of a payoff is simply a dangerous form of gambling.

Paul Graham is basically just talking his own book. His model is to fund a heap of cheap companies that overwork work young, naive people. Most of these companies fail. The occasional one succeeds enormously which more than covers the costs of the failures. Meanwhile, the starry-eyed young employees often don't notice the system is rotten until their thirties.

I was once in the SF startup world, and it's a pretty disgusting place. It's sexist, extremely ageist, intolerant of actual diversity, and anti-family. The sooner that particular culture dies (and make no mistake, it's dying), the better.

It's also lazy capitalism; it loads as much risk as possible onto the employees instead of those providing the capital, and many of the twenty-somethings love it. Machismo (look at how hard I work) and confirmation bias abound.

You're being played, folks.

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