When I read the introduction I immediately thought about Apache + MySQL + PHP + Symfony.
ORM, templating engine, community, it's all there.
Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade
81–90 of 228 posts
Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade
#82> TCL is not really web suitable (though it’s been done) I don't use Tcl (not TCL!) anymore myself, but it'd be more honest to say that it's not that popular these days or not a language you happen to like. This is built with Tcl just fine: http://flightaware.com/ With that out of the way, I think that was a good read, and a reasonable process. It's fair to be a bit subjective about some things, because... we're huma…
AOL ran on AOLServer[1][2] (TCL + embedded C bits) for many years, I believe, quite happily.
[1] http://www.aolserver.com [2] http://philip.greenspun.com/wtr/aolserver/introduction-1.htm...
Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade
#83FWIW, I'd remove GWT from consideration. I heard that it's shortlisted for end-of-life at Google because it's a hassle to work with. Anecdotally, I agree with that. I once built a product on GWT because it impressed me so much on paper. Static typing, compiling permutations of your app and loading only what's needed, optimization of stylesheets, rendering only on the client etc. It seemed perfect. IIRC the two main i…
Wow. That's going to piss off quite a few people if google EOL's GWT and they know about it today but are not communicating it to the outside world. Google has a habit of pushing tech out for people to build on and then pulling the rug right out from under them. A citation would really help here but 'I heard' makes me realize that will probably not be forthcoming.
Actually, the GWT governance has been handed over to the community ( http://googlewebtoolkit.blogspot.ch/2013/07/gwt-news.html ). It's quite obvious that they have less love for gwt than before, but I don't think we can classify it as a EOLed project (as it's actively developed and there is a community outside of google).
Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade
#84Since the exercise is framed this way (for the next decade), It might by interesting to try it from the perspective of 2004. IE, if you made a decision this way in 2004, how wrong/right would it have been now that the decade is over?
We would all be writing Java applets, no?
Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade
#85I (naturally) think that the article's summarily dismissing Haskell is unfortunate. It's probably just the result of poor PR on Haskell's part. Haskell is not only for surpassingly intelligent people, or even optimized for them. If anything, it's the opposite: one of its core tenants is that we're not smart enough to reason about our programs in most languages. Much of the design work focuses on unloading complexity…
Out of interest, what would you say are the kinds of bugs that using something like Haskell helps you avoid? I've had a look at Haskell before and while all the individual parts looked reasonable I struggled to understand both what an application would look like at a high level and what the inherent advantages are (not saying there aren't any - just that they didn't jump out to me). In most languages I have learned I…
From my experience, using Haskell avoids all bugs because you'll never get anything deployed to production what with it being intractable murk.
Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade
#86To me, the most interesting thing about this post is that there is no clear answer. We're mired in, frankly, a lot of junk. There's no winner because nothing is really very good.
If you arbitrarily reject everything unfamiliar then filter the remainder for stability you wind up with unremarkable stuff that will get the job done. There are better ways to write web apps but you're not going to find them following the process outlined in the post.
Boring unremarkable stuff that gets the job done sounds great to me. Sexy, new, hot, flashy are exactly what I'm trying to avoid getting sucked in to (though, believe me I can feel the draw).
The life-cycle of the software underpinning what I build is as important or even more important than whether or not it is 'the best way' to do something today. Because that best way is the bleeding edge and the day after tomorrow (or even tomorrow) that will be something else.
I don't have the manpower nor the interest and time to keep rebuilding the stuff I put out there.
Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade
#87What are the problems of spring license? It's a clear apache 2.0 license which is quite used in the java world. (edit: ok, noticed that the wikipedia page was wrong, I've corrected it)
Additionally, even though I'm not a fan of the following frameworks, but any java web dev know about jsf (due to being pushed as the "standard enterprise web framework") and vaadin.
Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade
#88Google could give a huge boost in confidence in Go, tomorrow (or rather within 2 years) - just make Go the official main language to use for writing Android apps and start deprecating Java. Once it does that, I don't think there will be any doubt in anyone's mind that Go has less chance of survival than say Java. In fact, Java will immediately lose confidence once Android drops Java (in a reasonable 3-5 year timefram…
Are you suggesting that the Go language would be retargeted to the VM?
Or that Android apps would be compiled into binaries executed without a VM?
Either way, fascinating idea, and it would be a good way to settle the Google/Oracle dispute once and for all. If they choose the second path (security will be a huge concern) they might even pick up a nice speed boost too.
Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade
#89I (naturally) think that the article's summarily dismissing Haskell is unfortunate. It's probably just the result of poor PR on Haskell's part. Haskell is not only for surpassingly intelligent people, or even optimized for them. If anything, it's the opposite: one of its core tenants is that we're not smart enough to reason about our programs in most languages. Much of the design work focuses on unloading complexity…
After fairly long time playing with Haskell, I find it quite beautiful and pleasure to use, but only for theory/book-ish use cases. As for real world usage - it is quite ugly and cumbersome, e.g. when you need some error handling and multiple monads using (with transformers), etc...
Another quick way to measure this - compare that beautiful pseudo quick sort to real quick sort (e.g. using Array.ST)...
Re: Choosing a Web Framework/Language Combo for the Next Decade
#90Rather than sloppily relying on hearsay, popularity and Googling, the suitability of web frameworks could be tested in competitions like https://www.plat-forms.org ... I wish more people would participate there, the results are somewhat surprising (and of course take into account the skill of the developers).
Maybe people don't get involved because it's hard to figure out the results. I see a graph labeled "team A, B, C..." and no key to which team is which. What am I missing?