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The desktop and the developer

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Re: The desktop and the developer

#261

Post by marrs »

davexunit wrote: post #20

I've used OS X at work for the past 2 years and I completely disagree that OS X is nice for developers. I've had a lot of issues that I wouldn't have had if I was using a GNU/Linux distro like Debian. Major issues with GCC after certain updates, outdated GNU software like bash, brew is barely acceptable as a package manager (can't hold a candle to dpkg/apt), and I have to go to websites to get the installers for most…

I tend to agree. I use Mac OS only because it natively supports Photoshop and MS Office and I may need to install these at some point. It also has first class support for the kind of dev I do (e.g. most other devs in my field also use a Mac) making troubleshooting slightly easier.

As for the UI, until Mavericks I think it was behind the last stable Gnome 2 release. Now it is ahead in some areas but still behind in others.

Finally, Ubuntu continually screwing up things like audio support or ruining areas of the UI (ironically to make them more like OS X) also helped me make the switch.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#262

Post by e1g »

wangweij wrote: post #226

I've used Mac for 8 years (since the 1st gen Intel MacBook) but now I really want to run away. My current Mac is a server-level 2013 i7 Mac Mini with 8G RAM. It's not uncommon for me to run Mail, SubLime Text, IntelliJ IDEA and one or two VirtualBox guests on it, and then CPU goes high, the whole machine slows down, and fan produces loud noises. On the other hand, my ThinkPad running Windows 8.1 with a similar hardwa…

It could be that something within your OSX is not quite right.

My primary machine is a 2013 MBA, and I always switch between IntelliJ, couple vmboxes, spotify, 5-10 Chrome tabs, Pages/Numbers, and Skype. Often, I also run VMWare with Windows. My MBA never makes a squeak, and the only time I feel underpowered is when I have to open all of this at once.

Your hardware runs circles around mine, and should not struggles with such a basic workload - I would look into potential problems on the OS level or start afresh.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#264

Post by kayoone »

keypusher wrote: post #247
harel wrote: post #33

I just don't get how OSX is so popular with a developers. It is essentially a "user's" OS. Not a developer one. Its geared towards, and hides a lot from, the common user. Setting up OSX with all the dev stack is usually a painful experience requiring a few workarounds (I see this with colleagues of mine who wanted a Mac over a Thinkpad with Linux). The keyboard as well is anythign but developer friendly. Where are th…

Because I have a data center full of nodes for when I need horsepower and a big fancy desktop with multiple monitors and a desk and a chair and a keyboard for when I need do serious development. What I want out of a laptop is a great form factor, solid battery life, a good keyboard, a large trackpad, a web browser and a real terminal. I own a 13-inch MacBook Air, it cost $1000 brand new, so no I didn't pay any premiu…

unless you need a halfway decent GPU for you work, then you are bound to the top of the line $2600 rMBP. Thats the main problem with apple, very limited choices.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#265

Post by kayoone »

I strongly believe a lot of the mac trend came from Rails, Textmate and 37signals promoting that dev platform with their work. Add the iOS goldrush to that and you have your reason for OSX as a dominant dev platform. Especially in the startup space, a lot of people changed back then but with tools like vagrant and vms in general, the choice isn't as clear today imo.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#266

Post by kayoone »

kelseyfrancis wrote: post #235
dredmorbius wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weight has a lot to do with it. The first Macbooks, and the the Macbook Air, were far, far lighter than equivalently provisioned x86 systems. The disparity's gotten better, but you still have HP and Dell putting out boat anchors compared with Apple. Lenovo's between the two. My T520i isn't flyweight, but it does OK (the power supply is a brick though). I've eyed the Carbon but have passed on it to date.

The Dell XPS 15 [1] weighs around 4.5 pounds, has a higher-resolution display than a Retina MacBook Pro, a comparable i7 quad-core, 16 gb ram, etc. It also has excellent Linux support (source: I have one that I installed Fedora 20 on and everything worked without any tinkering). There don't seem to be any other options comparable to a MacBook Pro for hardware. In particular, very, very few laptops that aren't enormou…

I heard many people complain about coil whine in these models. Also does this support GPU switching under Linux and does sleep/hibernate etc work without issues ?

Re: The desktop and the developer

#267

Post by kayoone »

jcastro wrote: post #157
CmonDev wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I just don't get how OSX is so popular with a developers" It is not until there is a reliable statistics report.

That's easy. Go to any Linux or tech/developer conference. Most attendees will have Macs running OSX.

Go to a .NET/Java or game developer conference. Most attendees will have PCs running Windows.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#268

Post by kayoone »

zem wrote: post #154
p4bl0 wrote: post #6

I'm not sure what to think of this blog post. Do anyone really recognize himself or herself in the described developers? It's not even about Mac OS X vs GNU/Linux, I'm not using any desktop environment on my computers (no Gnome, KDE, XFCE, …), my graphical environment is composed of a minimal windows manager and a small taskbar. I don't need anything else. I just checked and I don't even have a graphical file browser…

my current work laptop is a first-generation lenovo x1 carbon (seriously, best laptop i've ever used, though i hear the new version is a step backwards), running ubuntu and xfce4 with xmonad as the window manager. i'm happy and productive with it. as you say, 99% of the time all i'm using is web browsers and terminals anyway, and the ability to tile and move them around desktops with a few keystrokes is wonderful. th…

I think its true in some circles. Go to dev conferences for javascript/rails or other fancy web tech/startups and >90% use macs. If you don't you kind of look like someone who is an apple hater or too cheap to buy a mac. I believe some people would even look down on you if you were using windows for example.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#269

Post by dredmorbius »

kelseyfrancis wrote: post #235
dredmorbius wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weight has a lot to do with it. The first Macbooks, and the the Macbook Air, were far, far lighter than equivalently provisioned x86 systems. The disparity's gotten better, but you still have HP and Dell putting out boat anchors compared with Apple. Lenovo's between the two. My T520i isn't flyweight, but it does OK (the power supply is a brick though). I've eyed the Carbon but have passed on it to date.

The Dell XPS 15 [1] weighs around 4.5 pounds, has a higher-resolution display than a Retina MacBook Pro, a comparable i7 quad-core, 16 gb ram, etc. It also has excellent Linux support (source: I have one that I installed Fedora 20 on and everything worked without any tinkering). There don't seem to be any other options comparable to a MacBook Pro for hardware. In particular, very, very few laptops that aren't enormou…

I'll grant that I may be dissing Dell and HP in part on the basis of their more downmarket and/or "desktop replacement" laptops which tend toward the boat-anchor characteristics.

On a vaguely related note, one aspect of Dells I've found particularly annoying is their implementation of the Trackpoint. While available as an option on some laptops, I found that the rubber used on the nub was harder, and far more irritating to my index finger, than that used on Thinkpads. It's almost comical that user satisfaction could come down to an issue such as this, but over the several months I was using a company-issued Dell, I found that to be a constant annoyance. I tried sanding down the bumps on top, substituting a spare Thinkpad nub (the bases are sized differently, it didn't fit), and a few other tricks. Ended up with blisters on my finger.

The 13" MBA weighs 2.96lb, the 11" (too small for my blood) 2.38: https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/specs.html

Lenovo's Carbon X1 is 3.09lb: https://www.lenovo.com/shop/americas/content/pdf/system_data...

Though here it's claimed "starting at 2.8 lb": http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-ca...

The Lenovo also sports a 14" display, your Dell a 15".

Re: The desktop and the developer

#270

Post by dredmorbius »

pjmlp wrote: post #242
dredmorbius wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is really good at delivering a "sane defaults" desktop. It is not, by definition, an "optimal for task" desktop. I've used OS X off and on for much of the past decade. It's not a serious productivity platform.

> It's not a serious productivity platform. To whom? If your customers are Mac users, it sure is.

For me, though I thought that was clear.
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