Live data from Hacker News

The desktop and the developer

mjg59.dreamwidth.org

231–240 of 304 posts

Re: The desktop and the developer

#231
Why I don't use a Mac desktop (laptop):

• Keyboard: standard PC layout, remappable ctrl/capslock with the capslock indicator indicating capslock, not n%2 physical key operations, pageup/pagedown, home/end, arrow keys, delete and backspace.

• Trackpoint. I hate trackpads.

• Three-button mouse.

• Choice of window manager, for:

• Focus-follows mouse.

• Mappable window manager hotkeys. I've got a set of features I've programmed into my window manager over the past 17 years (ironically: based on Aqua's antecedant, WindowMaker). They fit my workflow. Among them: alt-shift-t pops up a terminal window, alt-shift maximizes a window vertically (what the keybindings are matters far less than that I can map these functions. Resizing windows on OS X is a goddamned fucking mouse-up-your-ass-but-only-the-lower-right-corner pain. Every. Fucking. Time.

• Pinnable window menus. For when I need to track down a specific window (xlsclients | wc -l => 118 -- no, Expose doesn't cut it).

• An integrated package system with an unparalleled set of packages: grep -h '^Package:' _Packages | sort -u | wc -l => 50493. Yes, 50,493 packages. OS X has fink, and darwinports, and a mash of other tools, but fails to deliver a single integrated package management system, and the offerings I've found are sparse and tend to be poorly supported.

• Customizeability, in general. Not tweaking for its own sake, but simply getting things to work how I want them to.

• /proc and /sys. Believe it or not, having filesystem-based access to system internals is seriously fucking amazing.

• No "undocumented" features. Which isn't to say that there are system features which lack documentation, but there are not features for which documentation is being intentionally withheld*, as is the case for Macs.

• My hardware won't age out while it's still remotely usable. I've got 22 year old systems I can still boot and update. They are barely useful (network infrastructure), but they work.

Mark Pilgrim had a great "switching to Ubuntu" piece that got pulled when he deleted his website(s). Cory Doctorow points to it and mentions some highlights here: http://boingboing.net/2006/06/29/mark-pilgrims-list-o.html

Where I've seen Mac used extensively, a few elements seem to dictate its choice:

• For user not highly versed in Linux configuration, Macs do tend to be an easier to get-up-and-running system. Though honestly for desktop rollouts of the past 5-10 years, it's a very close race.

• There's often a use of Mac-specific applications. OS lock-in through application space is OS lock-in. It worked for Microsoft for a quarter century.

• It's often good enough. Not perfect, but Apple does very well at delivering a "sane-by-default" system. Mind, Ubuntu and Debian are getting damned good at this as well, as is Google via Android.

But to say that Mac is a foregone conclusion is hardly the case (as many here note).

Re: The desktop and the developer

#232
post #33

I just don't get how OSX is so popular with a developers. It is essentially a "user's" OS. Not a developer one. Its geared towards, and hides a lot from, the common user. Setting up OSX with all the dev stack is usually a painful experience requiring a few workarounds (I see this with colleagues of mine who wanted a Mac over a Thinkpad with Linux). The keyboard as well is anythign but developer friendly. Where are th…

Weight has a lot to do with it. The first Macbooks, and the the Macbook Air, were far, far lighter than equivalently provisioned x86 systems. The disparity's gotten better, but you still have HP and Dell putting out boat anchors compared with Apple.

Lenovo's between the two. My T520i isn't flyweight, but it does OK (the power supply is a brick though). I've eyed the Carbon but have passed on it to date.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#233

I've used Mac for 8 years (since the 1st gen Intel MacBook) but now I really want to run away. My current Mac is a server-level 2013 i7 Mac Mini with 8G RAM. It's not uncommon for me to run Mail, SubLime Text, IntelliJ IDEA and one or two VirtualBox guests on it, and then CPU goes high, the whole machine slows down, and fan produces loud noises. On the other hand, my ThinkPad running Windows 8.1 with a similar hardwa…

Why not get a new MBP if you want a work horse notebook. Yes im sure you can give me reasons but you should at least compare apples with apples.

The Mini is a 2.3GHz Intel Core i7 with 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3. A new MBP could have more RAM but only the highest 15' model has a matching CPU.

Edit: I work from home so mobility is not really crucial.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#234
post #73
post #53

Missing a killer feature here, at least for me: High-DPI support. No environment on Linux deals with high-DPI adequately yet. Between that and the other big one mentioned in the article, multitouch trackpad support, there is simply no way I can compromise. There isn't really anything else tying me down to OS X, but those two are huge. They're the only major changes I've seen in my workflow and desktop experience in t…

Gnome 3 is pretty close for HiDPI. So all of the default applications look great. It's still a bit of an issue that Chrome and Firefox are almost unusable so I've been using Epiphany and liking that.

> Gnome 3 is pretty close for HiDPI

Until you connect a non-HiDPI external display, where everything will still be scaled up by a hilariously huge factor of 2.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#235
post #33

I just don't get how OSX is so popular with a developers. It is essentially a "user's" OS. Not a developer one. Its geared towards, and hides a lot from, the common user. Setting up OSX with all the dev stack is usually a painful experience requiring a few workarounds (I see this with colleagues of mine who wanted a Mac over a Thinkpad with Linux). The keyboard as well is anythign but developer friendly. Where are th…

Weight has a lot to do with it. The first Macbooks, and the the Macbook Air, were far, far lighter than equivalently provisioned x86 systems. The disparity's gotten better, but you still have HP and Dell putting out boat anchors compared with Apple. Lenovo's between the two. My T520i isn't flyweight, but it does OK (the power supply is a brick though). I've eyed the Carbon but have passed on it to date.

The Dell XPS 15 [1] weighs around 4.5 pounds, has a higher-resolution display than a Retina MacBook Pro, a comparable i7 quad-core, 16 gb ram, etc. It also has excellent Linux support (source: I have one that I installed Fedora 20 on and everything worked without any tinkering).

There don't seem to be any other options comparable to a MacBook Pro for hardware. In particular, very, very few laptops that aren't enormous and heavy have a quad-core processor.

[1] http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-15-9530/pd

Re: The desktop and the developer

#236
post #126

I like OSX on a laptop because it's the only portable machine I've ever used where everything works correctly when I am constantly opening and closing the lid of the machine. At work I will leave my desk several times per day for meetings in conference rooms, then I take the machine home and I may open and close it a dozen more times in the evening. I've probably had 50 laptops over the last 20 years, and the only on…

Am I the only person out there who hasn't got a clue what the point in suspend / hibernate are for. Whenever I use them, it seems to take longer to boot than a complete restart, and half of the times it doesn't boot, and if it does, there is a good chance something is not working.

HP Zbook 15 with Ubuntu here. Boot to an empty desktop: 15 seconds, typing the password included. I timed that days ago out of curiosity. Resume from suspend to RAM: maybe 2 seconds to the password prompt, plus all my programs are open and in the state I left them before suspending. I never tried hybernating to disk but I bet moving 16 GB of RAM back and forth to disk wouldn't be as fast, even to SSD (I got a dual disk system SSD+HD).

Re: The desktop and the developer

#237
> If the desktop had built-in awareness of the issue tracker

And that's where this lost my vote. I don't want my desktop to have built in awareness of my issue tracker. My desktop should have no concept of what an issue tracker even is. Simple tools that compose well to offer complex functionality in the Unix philosophy. Not monolithic design which tries to anticipate and integrate with my development workflow, because it will inevitably get my workflow wrong. I like having these tools as standalone applications, because that means it is very easy to switch from Jira to Redmine, or from Git to Mercurial, or from vim to IntelliJ. I want my desktop to know about serving, resizing, and refreshing windows. I want my web browser to know about rendering html. I do not want my display manager to crash because we upgraded the bugzilla version on our server.

I do have problems with OSX, but they are primarily the result of not having any decent package management system, and is a discussion for another day.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#238
post #98

My desktop has been Linux since I installed Slackware off of downloaded 3.5 inch disks in the early/mid 1990s. He is correct about the availability of the development environment - back then the home user had to use Linux (or BSD) to get a Unix-type environment. Since MacOS has a NeXTSTEP core, this is no longer necessary. I go to a lot of Android meetings and presentations, sometimes hosted by Google. Most of the pe…

I am also the odd one out, also with a System76 laptop. :-)

You might try Cinnamon for a DE. I've found that it's not the same if you install the Ubuntu packages, it's best when packaged with Mint. But I bet you'll like it a lot more than Unity. Window buttons on the right and everything.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#239
post #33

I just don't get how OSX is so popular with a developers. It is essentially a "user's" OS. Not a developer one. Its geared towards, and hides a lot from, the common user. Setting up OSX with all the dev stack is usually a painful experience requiring a few workarounds (I see this with colleagues of mine who wanted a Mac over a Thinkpad with Linux). The keyboard as well is anythign but developer friendly. Where are th…

I just don't get how OSX is so popular with a developers. It is essentially a "user's" OS. I have been a Linux user from 1994 to 2007 (mostly Slackware, some Debian and CentOS later), Mac from 2007. I switched to OS X, because: (1) I don't want to mess with hardware and drivers anymore; (2) I don't want to update my whole operating system to update applications; (3) in my work environment people do use Microsoft Offi…

(2) I don't want to update my whole operating system to update applications;

There are some popular linux distros out there that have rolling updates so you never have to reinstall the os.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent years with Linux desktops and laptops. Switched to Mac about 10 years ago. Of all my developer friends I know, not only have I had the least amount of problems with my Mac laptops, but - sorry for the cliche - things just work. The latest and greatest is nice and while I'm not obsessed with having the newest, I like using what's new. I spent a lot of time fighting the proprietary thing. It's a noble effort, b…

> after years of sub-standard drivers, laptops that don't turn on when you open them, cpu fans buzzing out of control, etc, etc, I'd rather spend my time doing things instead of screwing with things. You left in '04, this nonsense ended in '06, '07. Partly because no one is really changing the hardware much, partly because we have first class support from Intel now.

Video drivers are still unacceptably bad on Linux. Docking, sleep etc fail for no reason understandable to even experienced users. I use Linux at work because it's still better than Windows but dream I would have a Mac.
Post reply on HN