The desktop and the developer • Hacker News Board

Re: The desktop and the developer

#191

Post by andor » Tue, May 20, 2014, 10:52 PM UTC

jrajav wrote: post #132

pyre wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you using multitouch for? I've spent the last 6 months with OSX as my main machine (not my first foray into OSX), and I use multitouch for scrolling and sometimes desktop-flipping, but only because OSX is designed that way. I could just as easily scroll with TrackPoint (I love me some TrackPoint) and use keyboard shortcuts to switch desktops (as I have on Linux in the past).

I use gestures for going forward / back in Chrome and for activating Exposé, but there are two main things that differentiate it: * Natural, responsive scrolling. After two-finger scrolling on OS X where it's so responsive that it's exactly like sliding paper over a table, nothing can really compare. Linux can't get to that point for a long time since it's limited to sending scroll wheel events. * Palm and thumb dete…

Linux can't get to that point for a long time since it's limited to sending scroll wheel events.

I don't have a proof, but this doesn't seem to be the case for GTK3 apps. Scrolling in Evince (GNOME's PDF viewer) and Web is very responsive.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#192

Post by nextos » Tue, May 20, 2014, 11:04 PM UTC

krakensden wrote: post #147

equalarrow wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent years with Linux desktops and laptops. Switched to Mac about 10 years ago. Of all my developer friends I know, not only have I had the least amount of problems with my Mac laptops, but - sorry for the cliche - things just work. The latest and greatest is nice and while I'm not obsessed with having the newest, I like using what's new. I spent a lot of time fighting the proprietary thing. It's a noble effort, b…

> after years of sub-standard drivers, laptops that don't turn on when you open them, cpu fans buzzing out of control, etc, etc, I'd rather spend my time doing things instead of screwing with things. You left in '04, this nonsense ended in '06, '07. Partly because no one is really changing the hardware much, partly because we have first class support from Intel now.

If you cherry pick laptops these days, you can even surpass Mac OS or Windows. My MacBook Air from 2012 has longer battery life and stays cooler using a stock Linux kernel than with it's Mac counterpart.

The trick is that it has very well supported Intel components. As a matter of fact, Linus used this laptop for some time.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#193

Post by sixbrx » Tue, May 20, 2014, 11:41 PM UTC

jiggy2011 wrote: post #7

There is still plenty of software missing from Linux that you would want for the average web developer workflow. For example whilst there are graphical Git clients available, there's nothing as polished as SourceTree or Tower available. Same thing with database GUIs. Also anybody who works with designers is probably going to have to interact with .PSD files at some point and GIMP isn't always an adequate tool.

I can't imagine wanting a "gui" for either git or "database". I'm happy with the git command line, where I know what I'm doing and the details of which you must know anyway, as many learn the hard way. Similarly I'm in SQL Developer and SQL Developer DM all day most days, not sure what sort of "gui" is missing?

Re: The desktop and the developer

#194

Post by pedalpete » Tue, May 20, 2014, 11:54 PM UTC

pyre wrote: post #84

Touche wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/lenovo/yoga-laptop-seri...

- Are you claiming that this machine will run Linux well? If so, you're missing links to back that claim. - Are you claiming that the specs match a 13" MacBook? If so, you must realize that it's possible to have a poor experience even with the same technical specs. - I haven't heard good things about Lenovo's non-ThinkPad laptops. Has this changed recently? Do you have something (a review perhaps) to backup the idea…

I don't think there is anything wrong with the non-ThinkPad Lenovo's. I've been on an ideapad u260 for years. It has outlasted my Macbook Air which was used half as often and cost twice as much. I run both windows and ubuntu on it without issue.

It was the first lenovo I owned, as it nears 4 years of usage, I'm only now starting to look at replacements, and I think I could definitely get away with using this for another few years.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#195

Post by dbbolton » Wed, May 21, 2014, 12:14 AM UTC

>what's easily the best trackpad hardware/driver combination on the market.

I've had a very positive experience with Synaptics on Linux. 99% of the more "advanced" features that people are likely to care about (two-finger scroll, two- and three-finger tap, vertical/horizontal scroll margins, corner hot buttons, etc.) are fully supported and easily configured with a simple file, and there is even a GUI to do it for you.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Touchpad_Synaptics#Adva...

>Linux's poorer multitouch handling is enough on its own to disrupt their workflow.

I never do any serious work on a multitouch device, so I can't speak to this. It's something I would never even think to worry about because it wouldn't affect my workflow.

>A combination of improved desktop polish and spending effort on optimising developer workflows

I'm not sold on this. "Polish" is completely subjective, but I think modern Linux desktops are quite polished. Take Mint Cinnamon, Netrunner, and Elementary for example. We've certainly come a long way since the era Gnome 2 and KDE 3. I imagine that's what a lot of non-Linux techies think of when they hear "Linux desktop".

As far as "developer workflow", I really don't think the author made a strong case as to how Apple wins in this category. Seems about as subjective as polish.

What I'd like to know is which platform more developers would use if prestige and peer pressure were completely removed from the equation.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#196

Post by bsder » Wed, May 21, 2014, 12:25 AM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #25

davexunit wrote: post #20

I've used OS X at work for the past 2 years and I completely disagree that OS X is nice for developers. I've had a lot of issues that I wouldn't have had if I was using a GNU/Linux distro like Debian. Major issues with GCC after certain updates, outdated GNU software like bash, brew is barely acceptable as a package manager (can't hold a candle to dpkg/apt), and I have to go to websites to get the installers for most…

As someone who's been using OSX full-time for the past two years, and using it in conjuction with a Linux-based desktop computer for the previous ~5. Yes. Linux is insanely better for development. But OSX is just passable enough that the form-factor of an Apple laptop wins out and I can work. I don't want to go back to using two computers and OSX is _much_ better at everyday non-developer stuff than any Linux I've ev…

No.

If I'm doing excessive amounts of stuff in the shell, I'm doing something wrong.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#197

Post by atweiden » Wed, May 21, 2014, 12:38 AM UTC

bunderbunder wrote: post #190

exodust wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely it's a myth that macbook hardware is of superhero "unrivalled" quality. I haven't seen links to comparative data backing up the claim. Failure rates, service rates, lifespan, side by side images of components at a microscopic level, data showing resistance to heat, cold, dust, impacts etc. What you will find is a lot of people repeating the claim about Apple hardware and the OS. A belief based it seems on one…

For comparative failure rates, see here: http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_laptop_reliab... A bar graph comparing failure rates among manufacturers appears on page 6. Asus and Toshiba represent the top tier, but Apple's better than average and not far behind them. That said, I think much of the "unrivaled quality" that many perceive in Macs has less to do with failure rates and more to do with the detail…

I run GNU/Linux on a CF-53 [1], and the experience has been nothing short of perfection. I say this having owned a 2011 iMac, 2013 Macbook Air which I still own, and the usual Dells and Lenovos: I would never willingly use any other laptop to get work done.

The CF-53 features a hardware on/off wireless switch, magnesium alloy casing that you can jump on, port protectors that fight dust and debris, and a keyboard that is to die for. The tactile feedback on the keyboard is absolutely incredible. It is the best laptop keyboard man has ever devised.

I hear it all the time, that Macs are the highest quality money can buy, but compared to what? Compared to cheap, plasticky crap run of the mill consumer Windows laptops from HP? Yea of course, get a Macbook there's no doubt.

But compared to a Panasonic? No way Jose, Panasonic makes better quality hardware that lasts longer and will take any abuse, which is why you'll read reviews by armed forces deployed in the ME use who recommend Toughbooks over competing ruggedized machines, including machines made by military contractors like General Dynamics.

You can spill water all over the 53, and drop it to the ground from three feet. Order one with built-in GOBI wireless card or GPS to make up for the bulk. Buying on ebay is commonly done to obtain toughbooks on the cheap. They last forever anyway, and they are often dumped on the market en masse once off of corporate and government leases. I would take my whatever-priced CF-53 with 10,450 operating hours over a brand new $1200 Macbook or brand new $1800 plasticky feeling consumer Windows PC without hesitation.

The only other laptop I'd consider buying for a mobile workstation is a CF-52, and only because it offers a higher resolution display and a higher performance GPU.

1: https://github.com/atweiden/pacstrapit

2: http://forum.notebookreview.com/panasonic/462491-robs-rant-r...

Re: The desktop and the developer

#198

Post by dorfsmay » Wed, May 21, 2014, 12:52 AM UTC

I have to use a Mac for work and the fact that it cannot do focus-follow-mouse makes it extremely painful for me. Add to that the lack of track-point (although that can be solved by adding a keyboard, but not so convenient when travelling) and that makes it, as far as I am concerned, the most useless laptop ever produced.

Even MS Windows let's you switch to focus-follow-mouse and use a piece of hardware with a track point.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#199

Post by [deleted] » Wed, May 21, 2014, 12:56 AM UTC

sneak wrote: post #168

blumentopf wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Tweakability isn't the issue. Simply catering to pro users is the issue. I moved from Linux to OS X in 2004 and am now on the fence about moving back. When OS X came out, Steve Jobs promised an OS that would cater to pro users as well as amateurs. He literally said so in one of his keynotes. But around 2006, Apple started focusing on the upcoming iPhone and downprioritized OS X development. Nowadays it's all ab…

> But around 2006, Apple started focusing on the upcoming iPhone and downprioritized OS X development. Nowadays it's all about making OS X more and more like iOS. They no longer care about pro users. This is a very compelling narrative, but the set-up simply does not support the conclusion. Making OSX more like iOS (sandboxing, for instance) is an incredibly welcome feature for pro users and newbs alike. The other ch…

[deleted]

Re: The desktop and the developer

#200

Post by TheZenPsycho » Wed, May 21, 2014, 1:15 AM UTC

CJefferson wrote: post #44

misnome wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are caring about things like specific bash versions, then you probably don't fall into the category of people who don't want to micromanage every aspect of their system.

There is a big difference between caring about 'specific bash versions', and wanting a version of bash released after 2007. How many other applications on your computer are 7 years out of date?

brew install bash

… really.