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Starting a Bank

ma.tt

11–20 of 68 posts

Re: Starting a Bank

#11
post #3

This will probably not happen when there are too much regulatory barrier to start and too many rules to comply with. The more improtant something is, the more likely it will be highly regulated, or monopolized.

That just means that there's less competition. And when you start getting successful, your competitors will need to spend a few years implementing their system before they can start actually competing with you. And I wouldn't worry about the big banks catching on to the "do what you can to help your customer" concept, it's not in their culture.

Re: Starting a Bank

#12
post #6
post #2

There are a whole bunch of reasons why this would be nearly impossible, but it's an interesting thought experiment nonetheless.

I don't like this comment. At least give me a hint why it would be "nearly impossible". You won't be able to do it with three guys in a basement, but I can't see how it would be "more impossible" than any other large corporation. If there hasn't been some recent change in regulation, it is probably a lot easier now then 10 years ago.

It's possible to start small community banks and there are programs for it. Difficult, but not impossible.

But about his bank. It seems like he wont make loans to local businesses and instead choose what he deems to be the least risky financial instruments. So the interest earned on deposits will be low.

And then as for safety, we all know that deposits in FDIC backed banks are good up to a certain limit. So he's not going to do much better for the customer on that end.

Plus, I don't know why he's complaining about bank bonuses. I believe he's mixing up investment banks with your usual commercial/community banks. As long as incentives are aligned to be towards loan quality rather than quantity, you will get good loans.

Re: Starting a Bank

#13
post #8
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like this comment. At least give me a hint why it would be "nearly impossible". You won't be able to do it with three guys in a basement, but I can't see how it would be "more impossible" than any other large corporation. If there hasn't been some recent change in regulation, it is probably a lot easier now then 10 years ago.

It's harder than many other large corporations because banking laws vary from state to state, and there are federal laws restricting banks operating universally across several states. Also, as a 'startup bank' you are initially reliant on your incumbent rivals for clearing and interbank transactions (unless you do literally leave cash in a vault at 0%). I agree technology has made it much easier recently though.

Fair enough. That PayPal isn't a bank in the US supports your point.

Re: Starting a Bank

#14
Obviously "matt" has not worked in the finance industry and clearly does not understand how banking works. Sounds decent in theory but in reality the bank would have no investors and would lose any talent when they didnt pay them. They would probably be the cause of the financial crisis by only employing stupid people who gave poor, risky loans.

Re: Starting a Bank

#15
Goldman Sachs just paid out 16 billion dollars in bonuses to their employees. If we had an extra 16 billion dollars lying around, we’d put it in the bank for a rainy day. (If Goldman had never paid out bonuses they never would have needed government intervention.)

A flawed comparison. Goldman is an investment bank that needs to pull in incredible returns percentage wise. Safebank is a watchman guarding a vault. Basically, Goldman needs to pay out bonuses to attract top-shelf talent, while Safebank doesn't.

Re: Starting a Bank

#16
SafeBank couldn’t raise VC or anything like that...

It also couldn't be a public corporation because share holders could make a very good case that management is failing its fiduciary duty by being hyper conservative.

And that's what I find most interesting about that article. It opens the discussion about public vs privately owned enterprise.

Privately owned business can forgo addition revenue by as much as the ownership feels like. The reasons for that don't have to be altruistic, it could be about longevity, not 20 or 50 years longevity but hundreds of years of longevity.

But we only live once, and our lives are short, so most of us like to maximize profits. Thus most often the risk vs. reward calculation doesn't look at time spans much longer then one human life time.

Re: Starting a Bank

#17
The problem is that his proposals ignore the economics behind banking. If you take someone's money and put it in a vault, how can you provide interest on that money? You can't. You'd, in fact, have to levy fees to cover the costs of staffing, buildings, security, etc. Yes, even an internet bank has to have physical infrastructure somewhere.

Heck, why am I going to spend $3 for a SafeBank iPhone app when I can access my online banking from many banks for free?

He rails against ATM fees. How is he going to get rid of them for me?

I don't notice that any of the large banks require the use of Internet Explorer. BofA, Wells Fargo, Citi all work with non-IE browsers. I'm sure one can find a bank (out of the many thousands in this country) that has a site that doesn't work with Firefox, but it isn't an easy thing to find - which is why he hasn't specified any particular bank! He doesn't know of any!

While ad blocking might be cool, it has nothing to do with my bank. It would be like WalMart telling me that acupuncture was good - it has nothing to do with their business.

People might hate banks, but they hate people mining them for data potentially more. "We noticed that you spend a lot at pornoshop.com. Did you know cheapporn.com usually has better prices?"

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And he hasn't satisfied the most important question: how would this be better than a member-owned credit union? A corporation has to try for profits. A member-owned credit union gives those profits back to its members as dividends. Their rules are set up for the benefit of their owners - who are the people depositing money with them.

The problem is that people want a host of expensive things. They want tellers. They want ATMs everywhere - and that means cash physically everywhere or you refunding the ATM fees. They want free checks. They want online banking.

While one can argue that the banking industry got a little out of control, you can't just put money in a safe and expect to be able to offer people all that. You need to lend it out and that incurs risk and even more overhead - you have to deal with all the payments, the legal stuff when something bad happens, foreclosures (because, yes, some people won't end up paying you back). And if you want to be "safe" and only lend to the most credit-worthy people, your margins go down because they're the people who can get money anywhere at really good rates.

I mean, if you lend me money at 4.83% (the overnight average for a 15 year fixed mortgage at bankrate.com) and give your depositors 2% interest on their money, you have a 2.83% margin to operate on. But then you want to refund people's ATM fees of, let's say, $10/mo. On $5,000 (more than the average depositor has), that means you have an effective 3% rate on deposits. If the depositor only has $1,000 deposited, you've given them an effective over 10% rate and you're now way into the red. And that doesn't even take into consideration the around 30% reserve you want to hold earning nothing. And you'd want to give them free checks and not charge overage fees and do all sorts of nice things.

And if you're a "nice" bank, you'll want to provide lower mortgage rates than the average, right?

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The fact is that there are already "nice" banks. They're called credit unions. They're owned and controlled by their members (customers). How will you do better than a credit union that's a not-for-profit institution?

By being more efficient? That's the only way. And he's vastly over-estimated the money that rolls in when you play it "safe" and "nice". Banks make a lot of money. They make that money through a combination of managed risk and fees. If you get rid of both of those, you don't make money, you lose it.

Re: Starting a Bank

#19
post #5

"We take your money and put it in a vault" That's not actually the job of a bank, is it? The job is to mediate lending and borrowing of money. By identifying the right people to lend money to, banks can offer the people whose money the take an interest rate. I still agree that there is a market for a better bank. I remember an example from the book "Why not?" where a bank (or something like that) offered to automatic…

"That's not actually the job of a bank, is it?" (re: money -> vault)

Well, from a customer point of view, it is, more or less. Most people are not picking a bank because of the interest rate it offers, they're picking it because they need to be able to write checks, use a debit card, make payments, etc. Anyone that's serious about growing their money is not opening a Bank of America savings account, they're using a real brokerage of some sort.

Am I wrong here? I tend to keep money far away from my bank account unless I intend to use it fairly soon, because I can do more with it elsewhere, but maybe I'm abnormal in that respect?

Personally, I'd guess that the single most important factor in choosing a bank is simply which one happens to be closer to your house so that you can make deposits and use the damn ATM without getting charged a fee. Mixed in with a little bit of hatred for banks that have screwed you over in the past, perhaps.

Unfortunately it's real difficult to compete on location until you're huge, so I don't know if something like this could ever gain much traction, especially as a startup without some serious cash invested up-front. I don't know if good web services could really close that gap; you feel the sting of a $3 ATM fee every time you get money, and making deposits is a lot easier if you don't have to send something through the mail, and I don't think a great website is going to lessen either pain point one bit.

Re: Starting a Bank

#20

The 3-6-3 model of banking has been thrown off to the wayside in pursuit of faster, quicker gains; but the original model still holds: savings at 3%, loans at 6%, golf course by 3pm.

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