Live data from Hacker News

How a Raccoon Became an Aardvark

newyorker.com

81–90 of 96 posts

Re: How a Raccoon Became an Aardvark

#82
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. According to Wikipedia you are not an authoritative source on yourself, e.g. Philip Roth " rel="nofollow">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/07/philip-roth-wikiped... and " rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPSPS>

I know. But Wikipedia's rules about authority only have bearing within their universe, and no bearing upon what is actually authoritative. Are you really saying that you are "not really" an authority about what you had for breakfast because Wikipedia wouldn't allow you to claim to be one?

Why would you be one? Maybe you don't know the difference between cilantro and parsley, but your omelet contained one of them. That mystery sausage in the back of your fridge that you ate and claimed was chorizo? Maybe the wait staff didn't like you so there was abnormally large amount of spit in your breakfast. Being Authoritative on your breakfast should only apply if you actually know what you ate, not just think you do.

Re: How a Raccoon Became an Aardvark

#83
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. According to Wikipedia you are not an authoritative source on yourself, e.g. Philip Roth " rel="nofollow">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/07/philip-roth-wikiped... and " rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPSPS>

I know. But Wikipedia's rules about authority only have bearing within their universe, and no bearing upon what is actually authoritative. Are you really saying that you are "not really" an authority about what you had for breakfast because Wikipedia wouldn't allow you to claim to be one?

IIRC, one of the first public Wikipedia "scandals" involved a guy who was irate because his Wikipedia entry was wrong and he was told he wasn't allowed to edit it. Cue much hemming and hawing.

Only the "wrong" was that it included "director" among a long list of accomplishments, on account of he had directed a film. The guy's beef was that he didn't like the film and didn't want to be noted for it, and he demanded sole authority over his own historical record.

Sometimes there are good reasons to not let people edit their own articles. Sometimes there aren't. But you need some sort of coherent policy.

Re: How a Raccoon Became an Aardvark

#84

Its not only Wikipedia that is vulnerable to this sort of proliferation of misinformation. In the developer community there are many myths that become canon simply because they sound plausible and are repeated often enough. I am a user of Go, and when I go to Go meetups I often hear people say, Go is faster than Java, because Go is compiled. This is definitely not the case in all cases ... and may not even be the cas…

That is a completely different phenomena. In your case something sounds plausible so people repeat it. in the Wikipedia case the phenomena happened because people essentially quote wikipedia, thus giving wikipedia citations to back up the fact. Now, if you are believing benchmark numbers...

Re: How a Raccoon Became an Aardvark

#85
post #20

So what. At least with The Internet, Google and Wikipedia, we can see this happening. I would bet money the same sort of thing happened in 1880, the Golden Age of Authority. Some intern at Encyclopedia Britainica slipped in a minor edit, The Time cited it, and then (10 years later) E.B. cites The Times to "prove" the "truth" of the minor edit. This has the stench of old line, mainstream media getting upset about The…

I would bet money the same sort of thing happened in 1880, the Golden Age of Authority. Some intern at Encyclopedia Britainica slipped in a minor edit ...and an editor with knowledge in that topic area removed that edit before publication. Which is the part of the process Wikipedia lacks.

> and an editor with knowledge in that topic area removed that edit before publication.

A study in Nature actually found comparable error rates in both Britannica and Wikipedia.

Naturally, there's additional context in the Wikipedia article, "Reliability of Wikipedia:" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_Wikipedia

I don't necessarily agree with bediger4000 that all errors have become transparent. Some lay dormant for years without notice. I am sympathetic to his general point though, because I do think we were putting a dangerous amount of faith in "authoritative references" before Wikipedia. We shouldn't just question Wikipedia, we should scrutinize all sources of authority.

It's important to recognize that reliability of information isn't a binary, it is on a scale. And the best way to move up that scale is to rely on a variety of authoritative references for any given claim.

The biggest reason I find Wikipedia reliable (on those occasions when I do) is because the sources for any given article are fairly transparent. If I find a dubious claim, I can immediately dig deeper by scrutinizing the cited expertise. Many times I don't need sources. Many times when I need more certainty, I scroll to the bottom and find no reassurance (or references to printed publications that require more legwork to verify). But Wikipedia at least allows me some foothold to calibrate my trust in a given article, because editors are encouraged to "show their work."

Britannica doesn't allow me to continue my research, or verify their conclusions. I have no idea what their editors are relying on. That's not to say I "assume false," but there are limits. I trust them proportionately to their track record, which is good, but not impeccable. They're never going to be as reliable as the sum of their hidden references would have been.

Re: How a Raccoon Became an Aardvark

#86
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that you can permalink to every version of a Wikipedia article using the history tab, e.g. the first version of the Hacker News article [1]. There's also flagged revisions which allows users to 'flag' a revision as the 'accepted' version [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hacker_News&oldid... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Pending_changes

This mechanism actually sounds like it could solve this problem. By making it policy that citations used in periodicals must link to these versioned pages, there is at least a traceable record about when something cited incorrect information. I could also see this being a service to inform authors when their citations have been invalidated. A truthiness score of an article or blog post could be based on citation accu…

Wikipedia has a page explaining how to cite Wikipedia according to various styles[0]. Additionally, when clicking "cite this page" in the sidebar of an article, all links use oldid= fields. (MLA citation is an outlier, as it doesn't link to anything.)

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_Wikipedia

Re: How a Raccoon Became an Aardvark

#87

It certainly exposes a flaw in Wikipedia, but perhaps not the expected one. Namely, it's not so much that anyone can edit the encyclopaedia and introduce false information, but that Wikipedia's faith in "Reliable Sources" like newspapers, magazines, and other forms of big media, is so entirely misplaced. Evidently you can't trust "proper journalism" to actually be true or correct, since many/most articles are written…

The flaw isn't so much that they trust those sources, because then which sources can they trust at all? The problem is that they treat all sources equally, and that once a few non-reputable sources cite something as fact, it will be hard to remove the entry from Wikipedia even if a few other, more reputable sources, gainsay the same. The 'rules' of Wikipedia are such that if you can get some consensus, even if that consensus is among a minority of disreputable sources, then you have a claim to the truth even if the entire world outside that consensus loudly proclaims the opposite.

And, if some idiot Wikipedia admin (but perhaps I'm repeating myself here) decides to stake his reputation on this falsehood, you are fucked. The falsehood may as well be written in stone at that point, as far as Wikipedia is concerned (cf Jimmy Wales birthday).

Re: How a Raccoon Became an Aardvark

#88

And yet I couldn't get the moderators to acknowledge the existence of New Mexican/South Western Chili.

Citation?: 25 Food Things Only A New Mexican Would Understand http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/06/new-mexican-food_n_...

A: It was yellow when I drove through it.

Re: How a Raccoon Became an Aardvark

#89
I was once asked in a deposition if, in my opinion, was Wikipedia an authoritative source. Which I replied, "No, it is not." When asked how I came to that conclusion, I cited the 'birthday incident' and how Wikipedia rigidly held on to a non-fact as fact given its process. This really annoyed the opposing counsel who had submitted a number of Wikipedia pages as exhibits in support of their case.

I could not imagine that someone who was being paid top dollar for their services wouldn't do their own research. Wikipedia is a great place to get pointers to where people have found things but other than that, one really has to be careful acting on or drawing conclusions from the information it contains on any given day.

Post reply on HN