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The desktop and the developer

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Re: The desktop and the developer

#161

Post by winter_blue »

sanderjd wrote: post #144
winter_blue wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please do link me to a $1200 non-Mac laptop with a high-res 15" screen, thin form factor, and nice trackpad. The cheapest high-res/HiDPI/Retina 15" MacBook costs $1999, not $1200. The baseline 13" rMBP costs $1199 after the education discount though[1]. [1] By the by, if you order from the Apple Online Store in the US, you can get the student discount no matter what. There's no verification of any kind (like to pos…

Whoops, I did actually mean 13". But also: I did buy last year's 15" model new-in-box for $1200 - there seems to be a pretty fast price drop-off, perhaps because Mac buyers really do have an above average focus on latest-and-greatest. Edit to add: My point is really not about the price but that taking away the "brand status" as a factor or even making it a confounding factor, Mac laptops completely own the "nice-for-…

Did you really get a Late 2013 15" rMBP, new, for $1200? Where'd you get it?

I'd like to (perhaps) get the Dell UP2414Q monitor, which is Retina-esque monitor (3840x2160 -- double of 1920x1080), and the Late 2013 15" rMBP is the only Apple laptop that can use the monitor in Retina mode at 60Hz.

Also, I've heard quite the opposite with regard to MacBook prices -- they stay up, while the prices of all other laptops drop significantly. For example, a high-end Late 2008 MBP still sells for nearly a thousand dollars on eBay, whereas a ThinkPad X200 will cost you only around $100 . As a side, you can squeeze 7-8 hours of battery life out of the ThinkPad X200 (running Arch).

Re: The desktop and the developer

#163

Post by atmosx »

chroma wrote: post #71

Many are baffled that OS X is so popular among developers. Likewise, many OS X users don't understand why someone would deal with Linux on a laptop. Those who do this are committing the typical mind fallacy[1]. Not everyone has the same preferences. One might as well be confused that some people like vanilla more than chocolate. I think many commenters in this thread could benefit from taking a step back and remember…

when I was a kid I couldn't understand how people liked chocolate ice-cream. I was always amazed by my sister's tendency for chocolate. To me the taste was awful, while vanilla was awesome.

Genes... :-)

Re: The desktop and the developer

#164

Post by platz »

collyw wrote: post #120
aerique wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the nice things about Linux desktops is that you're not tied to the default window manager like you are in Windows and OSX. While Linux distros might have a default window manager (like your Unity example for Ubuntu) it is still easy to switch. This allows developers to experiment with different paradigms with regards to the GUI, see for example the popularity of tiling WMs on Linux. (i3 has my preference, oth…

Totally agree. I used to love KDE, then they messed it up with KDE 4. Moved to Ubuntu / Gnome. Then Ubuntu screwed it up when they made it all Unity based. Screw that, I was happy working the way I was without to much shiny. Now using XFCE, and its refreshingly simple.

Fan of i3 as well. People talk about tmux and I just shrug; it's built in!

Re: The desktop and the developer

#165

Post by _random_ »

jcastro wrote: post #157
CmonDev wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I just don't get how OSX is so popular with a developers" It is not until there is a reliable statistics report.

That's easy. Go to any Linux or tech/developer conference. Most attendees will have Macs running OSX.

That's the smallest group of developers who are using a mainstream OS.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#166

Post by harel »

pyre wrote: post #101
harel wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think today you'll be cooler not using a mac... Herd mentality causes the non mac user to be the new 'individual free thinking anarchist'

Is everyone that is 'cool' an 'individual free-thinking anarchist' nowadays?

Modified Simpsons quote

Re: The desktop and the developer

#167

Post by collyw »

cmiles74 wrote: post #62
frik wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A HTML5 based graphical shell based on ChromiumOS/FirefoxOS could be the solution for Linux desktop . KDE 1-3 and Gnome 1 were a good desktop environment. I don't get why some devs prefer to rewrite good things. KDE 4 and Gnome 3 hurt the Linux desktop and users are searching for alternatives ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDE_4#Reception , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_2#GNOME_3 )

I don't agree that the later KDE and Gnome releases where steps backwards, in fact I think they've made solid progress towards matching OSX and Windows in terms of ease-of-use. On the other hand, this could be exactly the problem. It does seem that the more the Linux environments pursue the same goals as OSX and Windows, the stronger the backlash.

Windows 8 was a huge step backwards in usability. I had to use it for a couple of weeks before I figured out how to get Linux on a new laptop secure boot. I am using XFCE these days, because it behaves the way I am used to. No need to learn a whole new set of gestures or click combinations to do what I already know.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#168

Post by sneak »

blumentopf wrote: post #94
davexunit wrote: post #20

I've used OS X at work for the past 2 years and I completely disagree that OS X is nice for developers. I've had a lot of issues that I wouldn't have had if I was using a GNU/Linux distro like Debian. Major issues with GCC after certain updates, outdated GNU software like bash, brew is barely acceptable as a package manager (can't hold a candle to dpkg/apt), and I have to go to websites to get the installers for most…

This. Tweakability isn't the issue. Simply catering to pro users is the issue. I moved from Linux to OS X in 2004 and am now on the fence about moving back. When OS X came out, Steve Jobs promised an OS that would cater to pro users as well as amateurs. He literally said so in one of his keynotes. But around 2006, Apple started focusing on the upcoming iPhone and downprioritized OS X development. Nowadays it's all ab…

> But around 2006, Apple started focusing on the upcoming iPhone and downprioritized OS X development. Nowadays it's all about making OS X more and more like iOS. They no longer care about pro users.

This is a very compelling narrative, but the set-up simply does not support the conclusion.

Making OSX more like iOS (sandboxing, for instance) is an incredibly welcome feature for pro users and newbs alike.

The other changes you point out are not related to the iOS-ification of the OS, and are not specifically "this isn't for pro users" sorts of changes as much as they are rearchitectures of the subsystems... it doesn't seem related to some "ignore the pro users" push.

I suggest you buy a usb network interface and pass the device through to a VM (Vagrant+VirtualBox is great for this) for your pentesting - then you get the best of both worlds.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#169

Post by smrtinsert »

harel wrote: post #33

I just don't get how OSX is so popular with a developers. It is essentially a "user's" OS. Not a developer one. Its geared towards, and hides a lot from, the common user. Setting up OSX with all the dev stack is usually a painful experience requiring a few workarounds (I see this with colleagues of mine who wanted a Mac over a Thinkpad with Linux). The keyboard as well is anythign but developer friendly. Where are th…

Most devs I've seen on macs use vim, which not to get into a flamewar, seems obsessed with turning into emacs in about 10 years or so. It seems to be completely bandwagon to me.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#170

Post by sanderjd »

winter_blue wrote: post #161
sanderjd wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoops, I did actually mean 13". But also: I did buy last year's 15" model new-in-box for $1200 - there seems to be a pretty fast price drop-off, perhaps because Mac buyers really do have an above average focus on latest-and-greatest. Edit to add: My point is really not about the price but that taking away the "brand status" as a factor or even making it a confounding factor, Mac laptops completely own the "nice-for-…

Did you really get a Late 2013 15" rMBP, new , for $1200? Where'd you get it? I'd like to (perhaps) get the Dell UP2414Q monitor, which is Retina-esque monitor (3840x2160 -- double of 1920x1080), and the Late 2013 15" rMBP is the only Apple laptop that can use the monitor in Retina mode at 60Hz. Also, I've heard quite the opposite with regard to MacBook prices -- they stay up, while the prices of all other laptops dr…

I guess it's possible I got a really good deal! I got a late 2011-model from ebay around this time last year (so May 2013), which turned out to be new in the box (but I wouldn't have minded a refurb), for $1199 plus tax.

I guess you're right that PCs retain their value even worse, but even $2000 to $1300 in a bit more than a year seems like a good deal.

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