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How did we get so busy?

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101–110 of 148 posts

Re: How did we get so busy?

#101
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to post this. I think this is the key bit: It’s almost always people whose lamented busyness is purely self-imposed: work and obligations they’ve taken on voluntarily, classes and activities they’ve “encouraged” their kids to participate in. They’re busy because of their own ambition or drive or anxiety, because they’re addicted to busyness and dread what they might have to face in its absence. There was an…

"To me, it's a good idea to always carry two sacks of something when you walk around. That way, if someone asks you 'Hey, can you give me a hand?' you can say, 'Sorry, got these sacks.'" - Jack Handey

[deleted]

Re: How did we get so busy?

#102

"Suppose that a Walmart clerk and a hedge-fund manager both decide to take the afternoon off to attend their kids’ baseball game. For the clerk, a half-day’s forfeited pay could come to less than forty dollars. For the hedge-fund manager, an afternoon’s worth of lost trades may cost millions, which is a lot to give up to watch little Billy strike out looking." This is bullshit. If you are working at Walmart you can't…

That hedge-fund manager also has legions of analysts and traders that do the manager's bidding. The idea that the manager is doing the actual button pushing on a trading terminal is bullshit as well.

Friend of a friend owns a modest investment fund and hasn't set foot in the office in a year. He directs his staff via smartphone from his boat.

Re: How did we get so busy?

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is working longer hours an evolutionary trait towards survival?

Organisms are not the only things that face evolutionary pressures. If bosses spend enough energy on trying to employ only the hardest workers, the end result is work hours increase until as many people quit over hours as join over compensation.

Note that in white collar fields (most of us on HN) people are usually graded on "hours in the office" not "hours of productivity" and rarely if ever quit over hours, they just spend more time at amazon.com, facebook, HN, twitter, that kind of thing. "He's demanding we go from 10 hour days to 12 hour days so he can get a bigger bonus and we will get squat other than maybe a demand to work 14 hour days next year, well F him, I'm going to increase my time playing farmville on my phone and tweeting, from 4 hours to 7 hours per day" I've seen this kind of thing with my own eyes. This is the genesis of the effect where a bog standard boring off the shelf employee, when converted to "contractor" suddenly gets three times as much work done in a mere six hours as an employee required to be butt in seat for twelve hours can accomplish.

I think its a nearly universal truth amongst white collar employees that if they only had to be at work while actually working, they'd probably only be at work about four to six hours per day, but they'd get at least twice as much work done. This is obviously a Fortune50 kind of observation more so than a startup.

In the pre-internet era it was pointless meetings and teambuilding activities and water cooler talk and especially smoke breaks. Oh and extended lunch at desk, in addition to the actual lunch hour, plus extended breaks.

In the end, if not carried out to extremes, it works out for everyone. The white collar workers experience something like a grade school playground or perhaps kindergarten classroom experience where most of their time is spent talking about their feelings, and who's in or out of such and such club, gossip, and what they saw on TV last night, and the boss gets a promotion because obviously he's more effective because he had butts in seats for 12 hours and his management competitors only had butts in seats for 10 hours and that's all that matters because that's all that can be verifiably documented and measured. Its not a bad life, as things go, as long as you don't mind sitting around doing nothing in an office (literally) almost all day.

Re: How did we get so busy?

#104
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids, startup, and distant location were all choices.

well, everything is a choice if we start going that route. the idea is to differentiate the intention behind the choice. if the intention (conscious or not) is to hide behind being busy then it's a problem. if you're actually pursuing something other than pretending due to fear or similar limiting reasons, it's not

>well, everything is a choice if we start going that route.

Exactly. And I would add that part of the point posed by the article is that we seem to be overly busy, given whatever life objectives/circumstances we have. So, given that a person choses to have, say, a job and 2 kids, then they are busier on average than in times past.

So, the question isn't whether an individual person can choose to be less busy. The question is why do we tend to be busier than ever on average, when we should theoretically have more leisure time.

Re: How did we get so busy?

#105
If you look at corporate employment (the situation of the lower classes is a different matter) people are doing about 5-10 hours of real work per week. Real work is so rare that it's a political token allocated as a favor. If you pay your dues and make your bosses happy, you might get a real project after a couple of years.

The rest of that time is spent acquiring and maintaining social status.

Under corporatism, you don't get a leisure society. You get total disenfranchisement of those who lose in (increasingly noisy and degenerate, over time) political tussles and end up with "the wrong kind" of resume, and a frenetic but wasteful contest in which those who are still in contention beat the piss out of each other to make themselves eligible for the (dwindling) supply of real projects.

When you have such a large number of people with nothing better to do but jockey for social status, you have a lot of cheap labor and it's easy to assign pointless grunt work that doesn't need to be done, and that does little for a person's career or general employability-- and people will do it.

That, above, is what happened. Also, read nlawalker's post, because (s?)he nailed it.

Re: How did we get so busy?

#106

"Suppose that a Walmart clerk and a hedge-fund manager both decide to take the afternoon off to attend their kids’ baseball game. For the clerk, a half-day’s forfeited pay could come to less than forty dollars. For the hedge-fund manager, an afternoon’s worth of lost trades may cost millions, which is a lot to give up to watch little Billy strike out looking." This is bullshit. If you are working at Walmart you can't…

That hedge-fund manager also has legions of analysts and traders that do the manager's bidding. The idea that the manager is doing the actual button pushing on a trading terminal is bullshit as well. Friend of a friend owns a modest investment fund and hasn't set foot in the office in a year. He directs his staff via smartphone from his boat.

Though I do not agree with th author, the author might be suggesting a situation which warrents the presence of the manager, may be meeting with a prospective client etc. Then there is a high probability someone else picked up the prospect and he lost millions.

Yes, it is all conjecture.

Re: How did we get so busy?

#107
post #12

I don't understand how you can expect to work less hours in a capitalist economy. Basically the whole point is to make money and if you're freeing up time that means you're more productive for other work. If my job is to do a, b, and c and using technology I make it so I only have to spend time doing a, then an employer is going to find something for me to do. Could be busy work, could be letting someone go and givin…

To do less work in a capitalist economy, own capital. Buy two houses, rent one live in the other, retire forever if so inclined.

Re: How did we get so busy?

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I have a 8 year-old boy, and a wife who takes care of him well. I want him to have a great education, wide knowledge and experience, and be ready to face life well, be kind to others, be equipped to work hard and make good money, be a good husband and a good father. That takes lots of time and money, and is completely worth it.

So you work 80 hours a week, meaning that you have almost no time to enjoy life with your kid... so that he can grow up to be like you and do the same thing, and presumably educate their children to do the same as well. So your ideal of how things should be is to have a saga of people working their asses off, in theory for the good of the next generation, but in practice for nothing because the next generation will w…

Its just that, he wants his son to have a better life than him. Thats why the toil. He wants to provide him better means, hence the 80 hr weeks.

Yes it'd depend on what you want from your life. Priorities are different for all.

Re: How did we get so busy?

#109
post #100
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We do have a lot more leisure, but it is distributed at the tails of our lifespan, the times of lowest productivity. That's fine, for retirement. But this viewpoint presupposes that kids' education is not productive , if not immediately and directly, but eventually and indirectly (eventually as adults, indirectly as productive members of society, which is more than being trained to do some specific job). Kids spend…

"The only thing which might be said is unproductive with kids' childhood is the long summer breaks" That assumes that schooling is relevant to a kids future. My 4th grader already operates at a numeracy and literacy level higher than adults "are supposed to". You're not supposed to be able to calculate percentages and figure out word problems, that will ruin the employment of tax preparers. You're not supposed to be…

> That assumes that schooling is relevant to a kids future.

Yes, that was one of the assumptions: "But this viewpoint presupposes that kids' education is not productive, ".

That whole premise was beyond the scope of my post, though I strayed a little bit into it.

Re: How did we get so busy?

#110
post #73

Hi, I've been a lurker here for some time now. I rarely ever comment on stories because, well, I have better things to do. But now, I really need to broaden my perspective. I just don't get it. *Disclaimer : I am young (23), broke but happy. This past year, I spent four months in Asia travelling. I rock-climbed for a while, tried bungee, canyon swing, diving, trekking and the motorcycle. I was able to afford all that…

> Why do you do it? Not everybody does. You sound like you might enjoy Mustachianism. That's the idea of keeping a lifestyle much like yours and using the low costs to work less, even while "growing up" and raising a family. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/

but this money mustache was working to retire ealry right ?Though,he most probably will live the same way even after retirement.
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