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Always Hungry? Here’s Why

nytimes.com

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Re: Always Hungry? Here’s Why

#91

Post by ninkendo »

This article goes to a lot of effort to make calorie-counting diets seem futile due to human nature, and there's certainly some truth to it. But I still think "pure" calorie counting (and by that I mean not changing much of what you eat, just how much you eat) can work for the average person.

It's just that, to "just eat less", you actually have to log everything you eat so that you can't lie to yourself and blow your calorie budget without knowing it. This is true IMO even if you're doing low-carb or any other kind of diet. Accountability and making it impossible to lie to yourself is key.

Personal anecdote follows:

I lost 50 lbs (220 -> 170 lbs at 6'2") by logging every single (non-zero-calorie) thing that passes my lips, and I've kept it off for over a year. I have no idea if the amount of willpower I have is typical, but I definitely couldn't have done it if I didn't log what I eat. My theory is that if you don't actually account for all the food you eat, you're more likely to slip out of good habits because you gradually lie to yourself more and more until you're consistently blowing your calorie budget without realizing it.

But I really have to log everything, no matter what, even when I overeat. I can never say to myself "I'm on vacation, I can skip a day" or "well I'm already way over my calorie budget, may as well stop logging." Even if I end up 1500 calories over budget, all the food I ate is right there in my log.

There's a couple of reasons why I think this works for me:

* If I log everything, then it's impossible to blow through 200-300 calories on a bagel without realizing it, because the act of logging it puts it in the front of my mind.

* So long as I log everything, I can allow myself to blow my budget now and again. But since it's logged, I know exactly how many calories I need to make up in the coming days. On a week-to-week and month-to-month basis I can make it all even out.

* Even though it's human nature to want to eat back all the calories you lost (and you will slip), there's nothing in human nature that's preventing you from logging it all. I may binge and overeat because my body's telling me to, but perhaps the next day when I realize I'm already 1500 calories over for the week because of yesterday, I'm better equipped to compensate for it and have a salad for lunch instead.

* Once you find the right number of calories, you can avoid under eating as well. For me I decided early I wanted to lose only 1 lb/week. So in the early months of my diet there was plenty of times where I was something like 600 calories under my daily budget, and I didn't feel like eating, but I forced myself to eat anyway. This throttled my weight loss, but I think it was a major factor in keeping it off... my brain never really went into the severe feast/famine recovery that made me yo-yo right back to my old weight.

The main downside of this plan though, is I have no exit strategy... I have my "maintenance level" of calories set on my logging app, and I really do plan to just log what I eat for the rest of my life. (I've been doing it for two years straight now.) It's completely automatic for me (I use the "Lose It!" app on my iPhone) so I don't even see it as a burden any more, but I know that as soon as I stop I'll slip back into my old habits and gain all my weight back.

Re: Always Hungry? Here’s Why

#92

Post by danbruc »

jasallen wrote: post #78
Udo wrote: post #3

There seems to be a pervasive unwillingness to understand the nature of positive feedback cycles, and instead we're just continually hearing "fat because of intake" and "intake because of fat" arguments that try to fall on an extreme interpretation of simplified causality. This article belongs to the very few that actually do a job of describing a feedback cycle, but then it falls short and does the popular simplific…

I really did enjoy this article. I don't think there is anything new here, but it's presented in a very "mass media friendly" way, which is important for finally defeating the "just eat less" mentality. Of course, it is still calorie in, calorie out, but we need to understand what effects metabolic changes in our body if we want to understand what calories are going out. Furthermore, quality of life generally indicat…

[...] psychological programming of expecting food to provide instant fuel [...]

Is this a real thing? Eating makes me less hungry but not more energetic no matter what I eat.

Re: Always Hungry? Here’s Why

#93

Post by jstelly »

Spittie wrote: post #87
greggman wrote: post #66

Just a random "obvious" comment but.. I've lost some weight recently by cutting my intake. My inspiration was my sister who used to be 5'2" and 260lbs but is now ~130lbs. She got her stomach stapled and for some number of months was on a 500 calorie a day diet. (I don't recommend that) Anyway, seeing that and reading things here on HN about how calorie restriction has an order of magnitude more effect than exercise (…

>Potato-chips or fries or a sugary snack? Forget about it! Well, it's supposed to be a diet after all :) I think that one should remove snacks/sweets/junk foods from their life before even considering what kind of a diet one should do. After all, those are probably 50%+ of the intake (at least, they are of mine... I'm trying to stop ) and there are very few foods with so many calories/carbs. Sodas are particularly na…

I agree about soda. To me it was one of the easiest things to eliminate from my diet because after a few months without one I didn't like them anymore.

I have also mostly given up fries, but I still like them even after not having any for months.

Re: Always Hungry? Here’s Why

#94

Post by ninkendo »

dlp211 wrote: post #54
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advice is sound. You get fat from the stuff that goes in your piehole. Stop putting so much stuff in there. The flaw is not in the argument. The flaw is in the people. THAT's thinking like an Engineer.

If you read the article, you would have realized that calorie deficits do not necessitate weight loss, for a variety of reasons. Thinking like an engineer, one should ask the question that is our underlying assumption, that is: is a calorie a calorie. The truth is, there are good calories and bad calories, and by eating good calories (fat, fiber, and protein) instead of bad calories (sugars and other non-fiber carboh…

> Now if you are eating 1500 extra calories a day then your body burns, then switching diets is not the only answer, but for most people this isn't the case.

The corollary of this is that if you're running a sufficient enough deficit, it doesn't matter how "bad" the calories are, thermodynamics plays the dominant role:

http://calorielab.com/news/2010/11/20/twinkie-diet-results/

But in reality there's a lot more to "health" than just weight, so take it with a grain of salt.

Re: Always Hungry? Here’s Why

#95

Post by benjohnson »

charlieflowers wrote: post #74

Lustig has his critics[1]. In fact, seems the mainstream almost thinks of him as a quack (almost). Myself, I can't discern who's right and wrong. I can see that a lot of people are overstating their level of certainty. [1] http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-ab...

Personally, I think Lustig has gotten a bit shrill in his attempt to get notice for his discoveries and observations. I can forgive him for that.

For myself, I accepted his premise and did my own experiment: by making a minimal attempt to stay away from most sugar, I've lost 15 lbs in the last year and a half.

Re: Always Hungry? Here’s Why

#96

Post by munificent »

Tycho wrote: post #81

I have a theory that being overweight is mostly caused by lack of walking. Everyone seems to get heavier as they get older, and most people seem to be slim when they're students. Regardless of how 'healthy' their lifestyle is (ie. if they eat junk food, or go jogging). So basically my theory is that when you're a student, you're probably walking a long way to get to university each day, and then when you're there you…

I think your theory is an oversimplification, but I agree totally that walking is an under-appreciated component of health.

Anecdote: several years ago, my brother and his wife were in their thirties and starting to get a bit soft around the middle like everyone does when they exit their twenties.

Like most Americans, they lived in a pedestrian-unfriendly city and drove everywhere. They moved to Vancouver and sold their car. Suddenly, they were walking everywhere. I went to visit them and they both looked markedly better: slimmer and healthier.

They eventually moved back to the States and they went right back to the shape they were in before.

I think walking is one of the easiest and most pleasurable things we can change to improve our health. Aside from the time cost, there's little downside to it.

Re: Always Hungry? Here’s Why

#97

Post by desigooner »

stinos wrote: post #75
SatoshiPacioli wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a wealth of information on ketogenic (low to no carb) diets: http://www.reddit.com/r/keto Everyone serious about this understands that carbs are the problem.

Care to also post links to scientific evidence next to the reddit? Sure it has information, but from a quick glance it's information without much science/proof to back it up, from people who are already convinced. I think way more is needed to convince the rather critical spirits on HN :)

Lyle McDonald's e-book on Ketogenic Diet is probably the best thing I've ever read. It's well referenced and pretty comprehensive.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-ketogenic-diet

Re: Always Hungry? Here’s Why

#98

Post by Tycho »

munificent wrote: post #96
Tycho wrote: post #81

I have a theory that being overweight is mostly caused by lack of walking. Everyone seems to get heavier as they get older, and most people seem to be slim when they're students. Regardless of how 'healthy' their lifestyle is (ie. if they eat junk food, or go jogging). So basically my theory is that when you're a student, you're probably walking a long way to get to university each day, and then when you're there you…

I think your theory is an oversimplification, but I agree totally that walking is an under-appreciated component of health. Anecdote: several years ago, my brother and his wife were in their thirties and starting to get a bit soft around the middle like everyone does when they exit their twenties. Like most Americans, they lived in a pedestrian-unfriendly city and drove everywhere. They moved to Vancouver and sold th…

Plus since walking is so pleasant, and is usually not 'deliberate' exercise (you're just trying to get somewhere), nobody feels the need to 'reward' themselves with extra food at the end of it.

Re: Always Hungry? Here’s Why

#99

Post by demet »

greggman wrote: post #66

Just a random "obvious" comment but.. I've lost some weight recently by cutting my intake. My inspiration was my sister who used to be 5'2" and 260lbs but is now ~130lbs. She got her stomach stapled and for some number of months was on a 500 calorie a day diet. (I don't recommend that) Anyway, seeing that and reading things here on HN about how calorie restriction has an order of magnitude more effect than exercise (…

I've started logging calories recently and since I am short (160cms) and am only looking to lose 5-6 kilos, online calorie calculators advised me to go on a 1100 calories/day diet. I upped that to 1200 calories, because it would have been unhealthy otherwise, apparently and I feel like if I consume the right foods, then I can stay on 1200 calories a day somewhat comfortably. Eating out is almost always out of the question, though.

Re: Always Hungry? Here’s Why

#100

Post by toyg »

wuliwong wrote: post #27
kome wrote: post #16

Obesity rates in Europe (2008): http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/50326000/gif/_50326564... Why Italians, that eat pasta (carbohydrates) almost every day are so thin? Goddammit.

I believe your mistake comes in the assumption that Italians' diet contains a disproportionate amount of pasta. American-Italian cuisine has that leaning for sure but I doubt their obesity rates are lower than the rest of the US population. I lived in Pisa for 2 months and was surprised to find that the cuisine (at least in the region I stayed) focused heavily on seafood. I believe the cuisine in Sicily is a little c…

Yeah, fish is kinda big across the whole country. In fact, Italians tend to be surprised by how fish is not particularly valued in a lot of other countries. There are geographic and historic factors in play, obviously: Pisa was one of the "Maritime Republics" city-states at one point ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_republics ) so they clearly know their sea; nearby Tuscan cities tend to be more meat-oriented.

Among other factors, I'd say that a lot of "pasta sauces" are entirely based on vegetables and prepared from fresh ingredients, something very different from processed stuff you buy in jars.

I don't think portions are a factor -- they might be smaller, but even the smallest meal will have several different types of food (pasta, meat or fish, vegetables and then fruit). Single-portion meals are very rare.

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