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I'm About as Good as Dead: The End of Xah Lee

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Re: I'm About as Good as Dead: The End of Xah Lee

#301

Post by roghummal »

michaelochurch wrote: post #166
nabla9 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is known as annoying Usenet troll by many. I don't classify him as pure troll, however. He don't troll for the sake of trolling and he can be helpful. He is very opinionated and argumentative and don't adjust his thinking very well. He might have mood disorder. http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/Personal_dir/xah.html

This guy doesn't deserve to have had Silicon Valley turn its collective back on him, and I definitely feel bad for what has happened to him, but I don't think his behavior can be attributed only to bipolar disorder or depression. I also don't see hypomanic grandiosity so much as defeat in his posturing, but that's just me.

Whatever makes you feel better.

Re: I'm About as Good as Dead: The End of Xah Lee

#302

Post by roghummal »

mgkimsal wrote: post #91
laichzeit0 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

45 year old programmers most likely have seen everything come around the block more than a few times in their careers and realize fads / crap ideas when they see them. E.g. Yet another build system I work with a 42 year old and by far he's the person I've learned the most from even though he "still uses Perl" (I love Perl btw) and I'm trying to convince him to learn Git and abandon CVS.

Exactly, and it's a big reason why some places are reluctant to hire them. They'll rain on your parade faster than anyone else, and people don't like to have their parade rained on.

Kinda sucks when someone experienced enough to know bullshit calls bullshit.

Re: I'm About as Good as Dead: The End of Xah Lee

#303

Post by roghummal »

michaelochurch wrote: post #179
mercer wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. I know a few people who have a (strong) mood disorder, and one characteristic they all share is that they tend to be more abrasive and 'rigid' in general, even when they're in a good mood.

When you're bipolar, you spend less time in the emotional midrange, where social skills are built, and develop a social deficit. (Some people recover in their 20s, because a 20% social deficit is catastrophic at 20 but not at 40-- being "socially 16" at 20 is devastating, but at 40, it means you're socially 32, which is not a big deal-- but some don't). You also spend more time than most people in intense states, whi…

Heh. Spoken like someone that doesn't really feel anything.

Re: I'm About as Good as Dead: The End of Xah Lee

#304

Post by vfclists »

wfjackson wrote: post #11

Edit: He seems to have a lot of interest and worked a lot on good documentation, which is the bane of the typical OSS project. Why doesn't Red Hat/Google etc. throw some money at him to write docs for underdocumented OSS stuff? Sounds like win win for all. It's hard to find really smart developers that are interested in writing documentation.[End edit] If you don't really know him, his LinkedIn profile shows more det…

He should realize that he is more inclined to be a blogger and a writer rather than professional programmer. He just needs to realize that and go for short term contract or part time gigs which enable to get pursue his Lisp or other teaching roles.

He simply is unaware of the deeper psychological dimension of being a teacher and an advocate and what that means for his personality

Re: I'm About as Good as Dead: The End of Xah Lee

#305

Post by clutterjoe »

Initially I typed some snark into this textarea, but thought better before I clicked submit.

It's troubling to see a human in pain and even more so to derive joy or a false sense of righteousness from it.

I'm not sure the help he wants is the help he needs, but I hope he finds his way out of that dark place.

Re: I'm About as Good as Dead: The End of Xah Lee

#307

Post by mercer »

overgard wrote: post #242
mercer wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just think a lot of what we call social skills really comes down to, frankly, giving a shit about the person in front of you. Very true. But first of all I'd argue that 'giving a shit' in itself is a skill. We are, to a large degree, taught to be nice. Watching the average eight-year-old in a school yard is a clear example of that. They're practically psychopathic: developed enough to understand the concept of 't…

> But first of all I'd argue that 'giving a shit' in itself is a skill. Yes. No doubt. I think for intellectual people, the tendency is always to move to a higher level of abstraction and generalize. Works well for ideas, but not for people. A lot of times, the interesting thing about people or situations is in exploring the details. (That's probably not going to make it on a motivational poster any time soon.)

Great point, because it highlights how 'not giving a shit' is not necessarily a result of an inherent lack of empathy or caring.

I've definitely noticed this in myself. By constantly abstracting things (perhaps exacerbated by my work), I lose the human connection sometimes and only later realize that I wasn't as empathic or caring as I wanted to be, simply because I got caught up in the abstractions.

Re: I'm About as Good as Dead: The End of Xah Lee

#308

Post by mercer »

jarin wrote: post #273
bitwize wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you're saying, but I also tend to think: if they're so smart, why not learn some social skills? It's not like being socially awkward has to be an innate thing; they're called social skills for a reason, you can learn them. It takes years to learn them. In an unforgiving environment. If you were punished or mocked every time you got even one answer wrong on a math test growing up, would you be terribly inte…

There are places where you won't be openly mocked, though. If you live in a city, you can easily find a good neighborhood bar. If you go there a couple times a week on slow nights, grab a couple of beers, and sit at the bar and watch SportsCenter, you'll end up getting to know the bartenders pretty well. Then the bartenders will make introductions to other bar regulars, and you can get to know them too. Local bars in…

While I think you're right, the problem is that the mere first step of hanging at a neighbourhood bar can be terrifying. Doing this alone, in fact, is something that very few people do comfortable, even social individuals.

It's worth the effort though. It's definitely helped me!

Re: I'm About as Good as Dead: The End of Xah Lee

#309

Post by mercer »

overgard wrote: post #247
mercer wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how can you tell?

Well, what I'm saying is stuff that you would apply to yourself. So I don't know how you'd tell, but presumably, if a person had one of those disorders they'd already know.

I'd say the problem is that we're not always aware of our own struggles (let alone those of others).

In my process of becoming a 'functioning adult', perhaps the most important steps involved realizing what my limitations were, and then learning to accept them.

And looking back, I often 'punished' myself for not trying hard enough, or for being lazy. I only later realized that some things are just much more difficult for me, and the better solution was to shape my lifestyle and environment around those limitations.

The problem of concepts 'lazy' or 'incapable' is that if you apply these concepts to yourself or others, they can easily become just a vehicle for whatever mood or state you're in.

Re: I'm About as Good as Dead: The End of Xah Lee

#310

Post by mercer »

abandonliberty wrote: post #286
mercer wrote: post #90

Cases like this, when the talented person in question is a geek who "doesn't interview well," always frustrate me. Most of my professional success is a result of social skills and a lot of experience with wildly different social environments and cultures. While I do work hard at being actually good at what I do (because that's just more fun!), I could get pretty far as a cruddy developer. And that just feels unfair,…

Do not pity us. Would you feel sorry for someone who doesn't work hard to stop being a cruddy developer? We are not alone. I'm someone who doesn't naturally get social cues. I don't recognize faces. I was bullied, ostracized, and grew up in an abusive household until I convinced my mother to divorce. While children were being children I was protecting my mother, becoming her key social support by 13. I had to be a ma…

That's great to hear!

I've never struggled with social cues by nature, but through circumstances I've had similar struggles with the actual social 'practice'. Working hard at 'fixing' this definitely helped, but a crucial aspect was the help, support, or simply acceptance of those who were better at this than I was. And I try to do that too, in turn.

Good luck on your journey.

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