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Why Van Halen's tour contract had a "no brown M&M's" clause

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Re: Why Van Halen's tour contract had a "no brown M&M's" clause

#61

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

ronaldx wrote: post #60
Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't eccentric, it's poor communications though. It could basically be summarised as: "Please provide tea making facilities: tea bags, milk, sugar and hot water. If possible a couple of cans of Pepsi (not diet or other brands please) would be appreciated." Really, the person organising the speech doesn't really care how someone takes their tea or why they don't like Pepsi or what the conditions (which are total…

I would wager that you'd end up being handed a can of Coke at good proportion of the time. "Oh sorry, they don't serve Pepsi here." Richard Stallman's way makes it clear that he does not want to support Coke. He does not want you to hand him a Coke by mistake. Since I assume that is his goal, he communicated it well. His story helps you to notice, and remember, this seemingly trivial detail.

I'm confused why you think him saying "I only want Pepsi" is in any way clearer than my saying "I only want Pepsi".

EDIT: Make it clearer by saying "Pepsi (absolutely not Coke or any other brand)" by all means but the person buying the drink wants to make sure you get what you want and then get on with their lives, they're really not interested in the why.

It feels to me that Stallman wants to use this - as with most of what he does - as something of a polemic about what he believes. That's fine but it does make the whole document less clear about the actual detail of what he wants.

Re: Why Van Halen's tour contract had a "no brown M&M's" clause

#62

Post by edwintorok »

gnyman wrote: post #44

There are quite a few applications that do something similar, they leave a "disabled=1" or similar in the config to make sure people look at the config before trying to run the software. I remember the eggdrop IRC bot doing it ( http://cvs.eggheads.org/viewvc/eggdrop1.6/eggdrop.conf?view=... , look for the lines starting with die) this and I'm sure there are more.

The ClamAV daemon also ship with a config file containing a line 'Example'. As long as the line is there it'll refuse to start.

Re: Why Van Halen's tour contract had a "no brown M&M's" clause

#63

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

markild wrote: post #57
Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't eccentric, it's poor communications though. It could basically be summarised as: "Please provide tea making facilities: tea bags, milk, sugar and hot water. If possible a couple of cans of Pepsi (not diet or other brands please) would be appreciated." Really, the person organising the speech doesn't really care how someone takes their tea or why they don't like Pepsi or what the conditions (which are total…

Agreed. Interesting to see that it doesn't work the same the other way. > When you need to tell me about a problem in a plan, please do not start with a long apology. That is unbearably boring

To be fair to him an apology and an explanation are different things.

He's basically giving his reasoning which under some circumstances is fine but on matters of beverages feels to me at least to be something you should file under unnecessary detail.

I guess it depends what he's trying to achieve with the document. As an aid to hosting Richard Stallman, it's too wordy. As a combination pollemic / Richard Stallman FAQ (though with some of these things frequently would seem to be stretching it) it's probably fine.

Re: Why Van Halen's tour contract had a "no brown M&M's" clause

#64

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

gnaffle wrote: post #37
arrrg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I just read this again. I first read it in a ridiculing context (“Parrots? Really?”) and didn’t think much to put it out of that context, but looking at it now I have to say my view on it has changed. I think it’s pretty alright, actually. Some of his demands have to do with his strong ethical views on software, and while I don’t agree completely with him on this, I certainly can respect him for being uncom…

Agreed. It might be quirky, but I many of the things he lists here must be things he has experienced (like people buying parrots because they heard he likes parrots) and doesn't want happening again.

It feels to me that you can't account for someone who would do something as ill considered as buying a parrot just because someone coming to stay with them for a couple of nights likes parrots.

Re: Why Van Halen's tour contract had a "no brown M&M's" clause

#65

Post by hedwall »

netcan wrote: post #20
JonnieCache wrote: post #3

This seems like a good opportunity to post RMS' rider again: https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/pipermail/developer... Fabulous stuff. I wonder how often he has/gets to hang out with random parrots since this document became widely known. In my mind he is surrounded constantly by sandal-wearing acolytes wielding exotic birds of every variety.

This is a fantastic read! If you have previously done streaming using some streaming service and you can't immediately name the format it uses, chances are it is unacceptable and I won't let you use it for my speech. ..This might seem unfair--if a ticket is lost, it could be my fault. But my income is not large, and I cannot afford to assume this risk myself if the event offers me no income. The frustration I feel wh…

I've said it before and will say it again, this is not a crazy rider. I've been organizing fairly large bands and their riders have been similar in "craziness" if you will.

Re: Why Van Halen's tour contract had a "no brown M&M's" clause

#66

Post by hedwall »

netcan wrote: post #51
arrrg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I just read this again. I first read it in a ridiculing context (“Parrots? Really?”) and didn’t think much to put it out of that context, but looking at it now I have to say my view on it has changed. I think it’s pretty alright, actually. Some of his demands have to do with his strong ethical views on software, and while I don’t agree completely with him on this, I certainly can respect him for being uncom…

The eccentricity or outlandishness is not in the actual content of the requests. He doesn't request anything expensive or difficult. It's in expecting everyone involved to thoroughly read the 10,000 man page and make sure they follow everything. So, instead of calling up the hotel you always use, Lucy from event planning is presumably expected to test SSH on the hotel network and question the staff about air conditio…

man page? I think you texinfo page :)

Re: Why Van Halen's tour contract had a "no brown M&M's" clause

#67

Post by Monkeyget »

It reminds me of the orange juice test. You organize an annual convention for hundreds of people.

You tell the banquet manager of the hotel you are considering that the morning breakfast must include a large glass of freshly squeezed orange juice for everyone of the attendees. It must be squeezed no more than two hours before the breakfast.

It is not possible to do so. Squeezing that much orange in much a short amount of time would be prohibitively expensive.

If the manager says yes he is either lying or incompetent and you'd better find someone else who will tell you it's not possible.

Re: Why Van Halen's tour contract had a "no brown M&M's" clause

#68

Post by bane »

One of the interesting things about tech work is that it's almost all "brown M&Ms". It's amazing how important attention to detail is in this field and how quickly something will simply not work if the details aren't sweated.

We see it time and again when things go into production where the "brown M&Ms" haven't been looked into and we end up with things like enterprise class websites that cost millions of dollars to produce crumbling under the load of a dozen simultaneous users.

Re: Why Van Halen's tour contract had a "no brown M&M's" clause

#69

Post by pdpi »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #61
ronaldx wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would wager that you'd end up being handed a can of Coke at good proportion of the time. "Oh sorry, they don't serve Pepsi here." Richard Stallman's way makes it clear that he does not want to support Coke. He does not want you to hand him a Coke by mistake. Since I assume that is his goal, he communicated it well. His story helps you to notice, and remember, this seemingly trivial detail.

I'm confused why you think him saying "I only want Pepsi" is in any way clearer than my saying "I only want Pepsi". EDIT: Make it clearer by saying "Pepsi (absolutely not Coke or any other brand)" by all means but the person buying the drink wants to make sure you get what you want and then get on with their lives, they're really not interested in the why. It feels to me that Stallman wants to use this - as with most…

Stallman's "I want pepsi" reads more like "I specifically don't want Coke, and Pepsi is the most common alternative". With that information in hand, I'd probably suggest he try some of the more boutique cola brands that are available. Your "I only want Pepsi" reads like "I specifically want Pepsi", without accounting for regional flavour differences, etc.

Re: Why Van Halen's tour contract had a "no brown M&M's" clause

#70

Post by majc2 »

Monkeyget wrote: post #67

It reminds me of the orange juice test. You organize an annual convention for hundreds of people. You tell the banquet manager of the hotel you are considering that the morning breakfast must include a large glass of freshly squeezed orange juice for everyone of the attendees. It must be squeezed no more than two hours before the breakfast. It is not possible to do so. Squeezing that much orange in much a short amoun…

I first heard this in "The secrets of consulting" by Gerald Weinberg. The fuller version is that the manger is only allowed to say 'yes' if they tell you there is a cost associated with it (i.e. it isn't free).
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