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Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

liftlabsdesign.com

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Re: Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

#31

Post by Rayne »

gfosco wrote: post #25
TeMPOraL wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tear everything to shreds. That's also called "constructive feedback" or "having something useful to say". OP offered his thoughts on the best cases where this technology could be applied while explaining how Parkinson actually works and how this limits the usefulness of this solution. If this is "such an HN reply", then this is also the kind of reply for which I come back to this site.

Lets just be clear... He recommended BRAIN SURGERY rather than a simple "hack" spoon.

Well, so would I. The spoon doesn't cure the symptoms.

Re: Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

#32

Post by caycep »

te_platt wrote: post #12
caycep wrote: post #8

This is interesting, but IMHO, will not be as useful in most cases of Parkinson's disease. 1) Parkinsonian tremor is typically at rest or with distraction. When you actually engage in purposeful action, such as using a spoon, the tremor usually dampens or goes away. 2) The main problem in Parkinson's is actually "bradykinesia" or slowness of movement. A more accurate term, in my opinion, is slowness of motor planning…

I have essential tremor not quite as bad as shown in the video but bad enough I'd be interested in such a spoon. I've tried Propranolol, a common tremor treating medication, but found the side effects (drowsiness) too unpleasant for frequent use. I have an anesthesiologist friend who reminds me of the surgery option every so often but brain surgery doesn't strike me as elegant as much as serious and invasive. My frie…

It is a personal decision whether to go to surgery or not, but our group really believes in letting patients known all the options.

The spoon only solves one problem - scooping up liquid food. One can argue that a fork or knife version could help with other food. It doesn't solve writing, playing instruments, typing. Shaving may be a little too delicate for something like this. DBS when done right solves all of this.

The problem with DBS is that best practices for implantation can vary widely, and I've seen it done really poorly, either with surgical groups with crappy experience w/ a lot of infections or poorly targeted leads that are many millimeters off the intended brain target. Our group prides ourselves in being pretty accurate most of the time, and with a complication rate of One thing to note, it's a stereotactic neurosurgical setup, which means our surgeon uses a skull mounted frame that inserts the implant in a 1 cm burr hole. It's not a typical open craniotomy where a large segment of the skull gets removed. So in a sense, yes, it is invasive, but no, it's not as invasive as full blown surgery.

We make sure all our patients who are candidates are aware of the risks and what the surgery entails going forward - both the eager beavers raring at the bit and the reluctant folks who are afraid of it. Many of them choose it, some of them don't. Some of them don't qualify, and that's every bit their decision.

Re: Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

#33

Post by caycep »

chez17 wrote: post #17
caycep wrote: post #8

This is interesting, but IMHO, will not be as useful in most cases of Parkinson's disease. 1) Parkinsonian tremor is typically at rest or with distraction. When you actually engage in purposeful action, such as using a spoon, the tremor usually dampens or goes away. 2) The main problem in Parkinson's is actually "bradykinesia" or slowness of movement. A more accurate term, in my opinion, is slowness of motor planning…

This is such an HN reply. Tear everything to shreds. Who cares if it "would be useful in a limited subset of cases where the tremor resembles another condition known as essential tremor"? Seriously, no one is forcing you to buy one. Be happy that people who are sick get the dignity of feeding themselves back. This is only positive. This can only get better. FFS...

I think of it as what is the overall benefit. For Parkinson's, the DBS will enable them to move and walk. Many advanced patients have tremor but can't move well enough to even use a spoon. To me, it seems like a solution that doesn't really see the forest for the trees.

Not that the spoon won't be useful in many situations, but I've seen other appliances - walkers with laser cues to try and improve the "freezing of gait" phenomenon, stomach tubes to try and get over the fluctuating levels of medications, all tried. They're nice, they're not invasive, they don't get used.

PD is complicated enough that solutions need to get a hold of the "big picture". For ET, it probably would have more of a role but still, what about writing, handling complex controls, etc? The spoon may fix a limited set of problems in all of this, but the bigger picture is what will get a bed bound or wheelchair bound patient back on their feet and doing all the things they need to do in daily life. There are better solutions available for this than just the spoon.

Re: Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

#34

Post by caycep »

RhysU wrote: post #10
caycep wrote: post #8

This is interesting, but IMHO, will not be as useful in most cases of Parkinson's disease. 1) Parkinsonian tremor is typically at rest or with distraction. When you actually engage in purposeful action, such as using a spoon, the tremor usually dampens or goes away. 2) The main problem in Parkinson's is actually "bradykinesia" or slowness of movement. A more accurate term, in my opinion, is slowness of motor planning…

My father being an ET sufferer who has had a useless DBS device implanted that he now leaves disabled at all times, I concur with your assessment.

I have seen the dark side to some of this. I think a lot of hospitals are rushing into implants without a lot of experience, and are either mis-implanting them or not selecting the candidates appropriately. IT's similar to another procedure like carotid endarterectomy in that it's very surgeon-dependent; you don't want it done by someone who does less than 25-30 cases a year.

Re: Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

#35

Post by flyfishcxy »

srean wrote: post #6

I think some will remember the news story that Sergey Brin has the Parkinson's mutation. He is keen to fund technologies that makes progress in this field. That would indeed be welcome. Diagnosing Parkinson's with confidence with a specific authoritative test is no easy task. For my dad, the doctors cannot decide if it is essential tremor or Parkinson's. I recall a post on HN which showed that our vocal signals have…

thank

Re: Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

#36

Post by doktrin »

stevesearer wrote: post #5

My grandfather has Parkinson's. My dad has slightly noticeable hand tremors - no diagnosis at this point. I haven't read up on the likelihood that I'll get it, but I assume that I'm at high risk. That said, this looks pretty neat and seems like basically a spoon version of Canon AF lenses. Will definitely look into these for my grandpa :)

Likewise, my grandfather most likely had Parkinson's towards the end of his life. My father has had essential / familial tremor for 3 decades or so.

I did at one point did check out my genetic risk factors as determined by 23 and Me, back when they provided trait mapping services. Turns out I have a higher than average lifetime risk.

It's all ugly shit. Even essential tremor is non-trivial. I'm glad innovations of all kinds are being made in this field.

Re: Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

#37

Post by yownie »

logicallee wrote: post #22
rosser wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, I'm not saying your position is wrong. I'm saying that your point is buried beneath your sarcasm and your ceaseless series of edits and revisions.

rosser: please bear in mind that while you are saying "I'm not saying your position is wrong", two respondents actually agree with the position taken in the marked "sarcastic part" :) so this certainly identifies an avenue for discussion, even if you do not prefer this way of bringing it up.

Please keep in mind what the poster is saying then, despite your position being worthy of discussion your tone is stifling enough as to make further discussion unpalatable.

Re: Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

#38

Post by srean »

flyfishcxy wrote: post #35
srean wrote: post #6

I think some will remember the news story that Sergey Brin has the Parkinson's mutation. He is keen to fund technologies that makes progress in this field. That would indeed be welcome. Diagnosing Parkinson's with confidence with a specific authoritative test is no easy task. For my dad, the doctors cannot decide if it is essential tremor or Parkinson's. I recall a post on HN which showed that our vocal signals have…

thank

Now what did I do ?

Re: Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

#39

Post by darkmighty »

srean wrote: post #6

I think some will remember the news story that Sergey Brin has the Parkinson's mutation. He is keen to fund technologies that makes progress in this field. That would indeed be welcome. Diagnosing Parkinson's with confidence with a specific authoritative test is no easy task. For my dad, the doctors cannot decide if it is essential tremor or Parkinson's. I recall a post on HN which showed that our vocal signals have…

This video left a deep impression on me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBh2LxTW0s0

I didn't realize how this sort of tech can be so life changing (or life giving)

Re: Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

#40

Post by bhassel »

logicallee wrote: post #3

Let's entertain the notion, prevalent here, that this idea itself (like all ideas themselves) is worth absolutely nothing, and that any one of the teams in the world who have access to gyroscopes, servos, and microchips, should have the right to reproduce this hack at unit cost and drive these guys out of business. Its cost is listed at $295.00[1] and this is their only product. It's huge compared to what the best fa…

Disliking patents doesn't mean I think ideas (and this idea in particular) are worthless -- the opposite, ideas like this are hugely valuable, and as you say, they can become even more valuable when they are shared and improved upon. As things stand today though, I agree with you that patents are a necessary evil in many cases for helping attract that initial investment.

If that really is the main role patents play, it seems like there ought to be a better way though. One that is more sustainable and less abhorrent than keeping a huge, increasingly unknowable set of mechanisms/solutions "you may not use" when solving problems. I am cautiously optimistic that something like widespread crowdfunding, along with with a better social safety (universal basic income?) that makes risk-taking easier, could possibly fill that role instead and make patents unnecessary. Then again, maybe I'm overly idealistic...

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