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Send money to a customer’s checking account using their debit card number

balancedpayments.com

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Re: Send money to a customer’s checking account using their debit card number

#51

Post by steveklabnik »

matthewarkin wrote: post #48
dublinben wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I'm very reluctant to give anyone my debit card number. If it fell into the wrong hands, my checking account could be wiped out for who knows how long. With my credit card I can at least dispute any charges before I have to pay for any of them.

Its my understanding that Visa / Mastercard will protect non pin based debit transactions (since they are really credit transactions). ACH is a different beast, from what it sounded like when reading the article, Balanced is somehow determining account numbers / routing numbers from bank accounts, which would be bad if they got hacked. On the other hand, they could just be issuing refunds to the cards.

We are not determining bank account numbers from debit card numbers.

Re: Send money to a customer’s checking account using their debit card number

#53

Post by AjithAntony »

wierdaaron wrote: post #47
the_watcher wrote: post #40

Is there any way to use this as a consumer replacement to things like PayPal/Venmo? It can be really frustrating to have to wait a few days for payments to clear.

Square Cash does this exact thing. Uses an app or via email, deposits via debit card number, and has no fees. No idea how it works, but it's how most of my friends send me money. https://square.com/cash

Yeah, for square the user can use debit card info or routing/account info. It appears that square has designed the onboarding UI to strongly favor debit cards, but there is a little link in there to account instead.

The really curious thing, however, is that no matter which one you choose, the transactions appear to be debit.

I'm pretty sure I signed up with an account number, but all the transactions in and out of my account are debit transactions.

FWIW, chase online clearly report either "ACH {Credit,Debit}" or "Debit Card Transaction"

Re: Send money to a customer’s checking account using their debit card number

#54

Post by madeofpalk »

steveklabnik wrote: post #51
matthewarkin wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its my understanding that Visa / Mastercard will protect non pin based debit transactions (since they are really credit transactions). ACH is a different beast, from what it sounded like when reading the article, Balanced is somehow determining account numbers / routing numbers from bank accounts, which would be bad if they got hacked. On the other hand, they could just be issuing refunds to the cards.

We are not determining bank account numbers from debit card numbers.

You're issuing 'refunds' onto the cards without charging in the first place, right?

Re: Send money to a customer’s checking account using their debit card number

#55

Post by steveklabnik »

madeofpalk wrote: post #54
steveklabnik wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are not determining bank account numbers from debit card numbers.

You're issuing 'refunds' onto the cards without charging in the first place, right?

Unreferenced refunds are generally frowned upon by the card networks. We'll talk more about what exactly we're doing eventually, but I'm not ready to explain it all while we're still building.

Re: Send money to a customer’s checking account using their debit card number

#56

Post by dublinben »

pstrateman wrote: post #25
baxter001 wrote: post #3

The sensitivity of the traditional bank account and sort number combination is totally backwards, at least in the uk, the only things you can do with a sort code and account number is pay in funds (or set up a direct debit but that's why the direct debit guarantee requirement exists). I'd feel uncomfortable extending my data exposure with my card number when I just want to receive funds.

The direct debit system is nearly identical to the US ACH system. Any funds pulled out of your account can be returned by a trip to the bank and signing an affidavit. The only difference is the inconvenience of having to physically go into the bank to reverse the payment.

That might be pretty difficult for members of online banks with one or no physical bank locations. I can dispute a credit card charge by email, phone, or even the web.

Re: Send money to a customer’s checking account using their debit card number

#57

Post by crdunwel »

matthewarkin wrote: post #49
crdunwel wrote: post #43

$1 fee per transaction. Done entirely by computers. In huge volumes. There is no reason that entirely electronic transactions should cost more than fractions of a penny to process. Any justification for this cost is complete bullshit.

Welcome to the banking system. If they're going threw the debit card channels, through Visa, they might charge a fee, Balanced's bank may charge a fee, Balanced has to pay its employees, pay for hosting its servers, make sure they are PCI compliant, etc.

Sounds like a lot of bloat and over exaggeration on the part of banks and credit card companies for how much all these things cost. They're still making a killing...

Re: Send money to a customer’s checking account using their debit card number

#58

Post by jareau »

tass wrote: post #41
mrjatx wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NOoooooo not even remotely. That would be terrible. The debit card number is a layer of abstraction that allows you to HIDE your bank account number from retailers. If you give someone your bank account number they can do whatever they want until you shut down that BANK account. Someone steals your debit card or the number it's super simple to get that changed and replaced. Someone steals your bank account number it'…

I'm very confused about this. Does that mean you should NEVER pay anyone by cheque since it has your account number printed on it? Why is the USA one of the only first-world countries that have such prevalent usage of cheques, but it's seen as so dangerous to disclose a bank account number? What can someone do with just a bank account number, and why isn't that problem being fixed?

> Why is the USA one of the only first-world countries that have such prevalent usage of cheques

I'm actually thinking about writing a blog post explaining my theory behind why this is the case. Would that be interesting?

tl;dr of my theory: geographic size and decentralized gov't in the US allowed a paper cheque system to outlive other countries'

Re: Send money to a customer’s checking account using their debit card number

#59

Post by beedogs »

baxter001 wrote: post #3

The sensitivity of the traditional bank account and sort number combination is totally backwards, at least in the uk, the only things you can do with a sort code and account number is pay in funds (or set up a direct debit but that's why the direct debit guarantee requirement exists). I'd feel uncomfortable extending my data exposure with my card number when I just want to receive funds.

Same here in Australia. I could post my BSB and account number here and the only thing people would be able to do is send me money.

Being able to write checks against anyone's routing/account combination in the US always terrified me.

Re: Send money to a customer’s checking account using their debit card number

#60

Post by jareau »

crdunwel wrote: post #57
matthewarkin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to the banking system. If they're going threw the debit card channels, through Visa, they might charge a fee, Balanced's bank may charge a fee, Balanced has to pay its employees, pay for hosting its servers, make sure they are PCI compliant, etc.

Sounds like a lot of bloat and over exaggeration on the part of banks and credit card companies for how much all these things cost. They're still making a killing...

fraud is often priced into these systems since most payments instruments in the US aren't push-only. Sorry if it sounds like I'm justifying...
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