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Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

liftlabsdesign.com

11–20 of 92 posts

Re: Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

#11
post #8

This is interesting, but IMHO, will not be as useful in most cases of Parkinson's disease. 1) Parkinsonian tremor is typically at rest or with distraction. When you actually engage in purposeful action, such as using a spoon, the tremor usually dampens or goes away. 2) The main problem in Parkinson's is actually "bradykinesia" or slowness of movement. A more accurate term, in my opinion, is slowness of motor planning…

I think there's still a market for this device for people with essential tremor explicitly as opposed to Parkinson's, in that is the opposite and worsens with movement.

I have an ever so slight tremor that's worsened by the drugs I take but nowhere near bad enough for others to notice let alone be worth any treatment (so far) and I would occasionally kill for something like this to interact with my phone some days. Like this morning I was pinching and zooming up the wazoo to give my thumb a big enough target to hit without hitting things by accident while shaking around. Not sure it'd be that useful at the moment for fine tuned control but...

(oh look I'm having a hard time hitting the reply button now...)

Re: Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

#12
post #8

This is interesting, but IMHO, will not be as useful in most cases of Parkinson's disease. 1) Parkinsonian tremor is typically at rest or with distraction. When you actually engage in purposeful action, such as using a spoon, the tremor usually dampens or goes away. 2) The main problem in Parkinson's is actually "bradykinesia" or slowness of movement. A more accurate term, in my opinion, is slowness of motor planning…

I have essential tremor not quite as bad as shown in the video but bad enough I'd be interested in such a spoon. I've tried Propranolol, a common tremor treating medication, but found the side effects (drowsiness) too unpleasant for frequent use. I have an anesthesiologist friend who reminds me of the surgery option every so often but brain surgery doesn't strike me as elegant as much as serious and invasive. My friend assures me it would be fun, but I think he means for him, not me.

Re: Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

#13
post #4

Let's entertain the notion, prevalent here, that this idea itself (like all ideas themselves) is worth absolutely nothing, and that any one of the teams in the world who have access to gyroscopes, servos, and microchips, should have the right to reproduce this hack at unit cost and drive these guys out of business. Its cost is listed at $295.00[1] and this is their only product. It's huge compared to what the best fa…

I didn't downvote you despite my almost reflexive tendency to downvote posts bitching about being downvoted. That said, I was strongly inclined to ding you for the sarcasm. Any point you might have been trying to make is obscured by the cloud of superiority and smugness your tone radiates, and, personally, I find that both off-putting and un-constructive. You could most assuredly use this invention as a means of star…

The fact that one of the responses, ronaldx, completely agrees with the point that I put in sarcasm, stating "The problem is that your sarcastic position sounds pretty good to me", shows that while the position seems smug and superior to you, it is actually a reasonable one around here.

The sarcastic part literally sounds pretty good to people here, and two posters have expressed agreement with it.

And look at the result. We have two very good comments agreeing with the sarcastic part (or denying its premise), and which we can now turn to.

Re: Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

#14
post #8

This is interesting, but IMHO, will not be as useful in most cases of Parkinson's disease. 1) Parkinsonian tremor is typically at rest or with distraction. When you actually engage in purposeful action, such as using a spoon, the tremor usually dampens or goes away. 2) The main problem in Parkinson's is actually "bradykinesia" or slowness of movement. A more accurate term, in my opinion, is slowness of motor planning…

For anyone interested in seeing the before/after effects of DBS treatment, this video is pretty powerful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBh2LxTW0s0

Re: Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

#15
post #9

Let's entertain the notion, prevalent here, that this idea itself (like all ideas themselves) is worth absolutely nothing, and that any one of the teams in the world who have access to gyroscopes, servos, and microchips, should have the right to reproduce this hack at unit cost and drive these guys out of business. Its cost is listed at $295.00[1] and this is their only product. It's huge compared to what the best fa…

The problem is that your sarcastic position sounds pretty good to me. The product is naturally high margin because there is a small, niche market. The first mover has a massive advantage, if they do a good enough job. It's unlikely that a copycat competitor would challenge someone in a good position, unless they could provide something cheaper or better. Patents don't change this, but they do allow the patent holder…

What do you think the gross unit margin is on a copy of Microsoft Office? (obv it's high). Would you consider that it is because it is a "small, niche market"?

What is the unit margin on a printed copy of a Finnish translation of Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn which is now in the public domain? (Obviously very low). Is that because it is a "small, niche market"?

The view that whether a market is a) small, b) niche, determines price, clearly has its limits.

In formal terms, the price we are looking at is the "monopoly price". It maximizes the profits given a single supplier (as for Microsoft Office.)

If Microsoft Office were more niche, it may cost $20,000, e.g. for excel in use just by a few wall street firms and nobody else -- we are talking about a situation where the software itself is exactly the same -- whereas if it were even more mass market, it may have a lower price.

At the current price for Microsoft Office, it is a steal for Wall Street trading firms doing some quick rough calculations, whereas it is expensive for students and families. Nevertheless, it is set at the monopoly price.

If the product we were talking about were a utensil everyone would want to use, it may have a price at $99 or $50 or even $20, depending on the scale the monopolist wants to hit.

You are right that the price depends on the demand curve. But in a monopoly, it depends far less on the supply curve.

Your argument about the first mover's advantage is not specific enough - can you state your premise more specifically, especially for hardware, maybe given some non-protected innovative examples (such as Pebble versus the Samsung Gear watch)? Then we could discuss it.

Where you say "unlikely that a copycat competitor would challenge someone in a good position." Out of curiosity, would you consider Lift Lab's position currently "good" if it did not have any patent protection?

Finally, you are completely correct that patents allow the patent holder to do a "poor" job, that "doesn't fully reach people who need this product". In terms of execution, how close do you think to optimal is Lift Labs doing in terms of executing on its idea?

For both of the last two paragraphs you could look at these common questions for example: http://store.liftlabsdesign.com/pages/faqs

Re: Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

#16
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote you despite my almost reflexive tendency to downvote posts bitching about being downvoted. That said, I was strongly inclined to ding you for the sarcasm. Any point you might have been trying to make is obscured by the cloud of superiority and smugness your tone radiates, and, personally, I find that both off-putting and un-constructive. You could most assuredly use this invention as a means of star…

The fact that one of the responses, ronaldx, completely agrees with the point that I put in sarcasm, stating "The problem is that your sarcastic position sounds pretty good to me", shows that while the position seems smug and superior to you, it is actually a reasonable one around here. The sarcastic part literally sounds pretty good to people here, and two posters have expressed agreement with it. And look at the re…

Again, I'm not saying your position is wrong. I'm saying that your point is buried beneath your sarcasm and your ceaseless series of edits and revisions.

Re: Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

#17
post #8

This is interesting, but IMHO, will not be as useful in most cases of Parkinson's disease. 1) Parkinsonian tremor is typically at rest or with distraction. When you actually engage in purposeful action, such as using a spoon, the tremor usually dampens or goes away. 2) The main problem in Parkinson's is actually "bradykinesia" or slowness of movement. A more accurate term, in my opinion, is slowness of motor planning…

This is such an HN reply. Tear everything to shreds. Who cares if it "would be useful in a limited subset of cases where the tremor resembles another condition known as essential tremor"? Seriously, no one is forcing you to buy one. Be happy that people who are sick get the dignity of feeding themselves back. This is only positive. This can only get better. FFS...

Re: Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

#18
post #8

This is interesting, but IMHO, will not be as useful in most cases of Parkinson's disease. 1) Parkinsonian tremor is typically at rest or with distraction. When you actually engage in purposeful action, such as using a spoon, the tremor usually dampens or goes away. 2) The main problem in Parkinson's is actually "bradykinesia" or slowness of movement. A more accurate term, in my opinion, is slowness of motor planning…

I have essential tremor not quite as bad as shown in the video but bad enough I'd be interested in such a spoon. I've tried Propranolol, a common tremor treating medication, but found the side effects (drowsiness) too unpleasant for frequent use. I have an anesthesiologist friend who reminds me of the surgery option every so often but brain surgery doesn't strike me as elegant as much as serious and invasive. My frie…

Obviously something like brain surgery shouldn't be taken lightly, but I've had a family friend with tremors go through the process and the result is pretty amazing.

Went from pretty severe tremors to appearing basically completely cured.

This is a pretty good example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBh2LxTW0s0

Re: Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

#19
My brother has downsyndrome and struggles with muscle control. When he eats he tremors quite a bit losing food on his plate forcing him to take a desperate eat fast approach to his meals. He has gone through quite a bit of muscle therapy to help. Needless to say, I will be buying this for him and can't wait to see what other types of people find an improvement in their lives with this product.

Re: Tremor-cancelling spoon for Parkinson's tremors

#20
post #17
post #8

This is interesting, but IMHO, will not be as useful in most cases of Parkinson's disease. 1) Parkinsonian tremor is typically at rest or with distraction. When you actually engage in purposeful action, such as using a spoon, the tremor usually dampens or goes away. 2) The main problem in Parkinson's is actually "bradykinesia" or slowness of movement. A more accurate term, in my opinion, is slowness of motor planning…

This is such an HN reply. Tear everything to shreds. Who cares if it "would be useful in a limited subset of cases where the tremor resembles another condition known as essential tremor"? Seriously, no one is forcing you to buy one. Be happy that people who are sick get the dignity of feeding themselves back. This is only positive. This can only get better. FFS...

> Tear everything to shreds.

That's also called "constructive feedback" or "having something useful to say". OP offered his thoughts on the best cases where this technology could be applied while explaining how Parkinson actually works and how this limits the usefulness of this solution. If this is "such an HN reply", then this is also the kind of reply for which I come back to this site.

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