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On those "Entitled" Twenty-Somethings

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Re: On those "Entitled" Twenty-Somethings

#61

Post by yardie »

cakesy wrote: post #38
edw519 wrote: post #11

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Like OP, I busted my butt in pursuit of a better future, graduated with an BS in Math and an MBA just to work at Denny's for 18 months before finding my first programming job. But I can't imagine ever writing a piece like this. I have only one "understanding". No one is ever going to give me anything, so I just have to suck it up and get it for myself. If OP persev…

People who are really serious at work, get into jobs in the last year of uni or before. There are loads of programs at uni, that you can get involved in, to help businesses. Some of these even pay, i did one that involved stochastic modelling for a large car company. That is when you should get involved, companies don't want someone with no experience of how to act in the work place.

I sort of agree, except schools are hosting job fairs and finding out no one is coming. Laying people off is hard emotionally. Except for corporate raiders, most companies don't like to do it. It depresses morale. Now imagine you've gone through 2-3,000 workers. But you're still shopping around for interns. The people that stay will see this, and you can guarantee there will be a great deal of sabotage.

I remember when there was the contraction (dotbomb) in 1999-2000. I was in Uni and when I went to the job fairs (Engineering, Science, and business colleges all had their own) the amount of alumnus was overwhelming. Guys that had graduated many years before me were taking a 2-3 hour drive to this land-grant university hoping to get a shot. Using their alumni connections to get any job. You can imagine what it would be like for an undergrad, no experience, no references, a meager resume, and a start date months or years away. I remember when Intel gave new hires severance money $7-10,000. They weren't going to start for at least 6 months. But Intel just laid off ~4,000 people so no way these guys were getting in.

The problem is those programs are also tied to the economy in general. When businesses aren't hiring paid positions, it is also unlikely they are looking for unpaid interns. And those university programs are meaningless if there are no where for them to go.

Re: On those "Entitled" Twenty-Somethings

#62

Post by wjy »

David wrote: post #48
calcnerd256 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely we can hack our language to get across our emotions civilly without resorting to swear words. I appreciate your comment and hope the sentiment you expressed is more widely shared around here.

What exactly is the problem with swear words? He's using a word with the appropriate emotional connotation to express his message. Why hack a system that doesn't work when we already have one that does exactly what we want?

A few well-placed curses can emphasize a point and convey emotion. It's all too easy, though, to use too many expletives, and communicate all emotion and no content.

Re: On those "Entitled" Twenty-Somethings

#63

Post by yardie »

karzeem wrote: post #7
bkudria wrote: post #2

Before everybody starts complaining, yes, I know that this is, on the surface, about the health care debate. However, before complaining that this isn't HN-material, consider for a moment the prevailing expectation college graduates have: "I need to get a job, which I can now do because I have a college degree." The author doesn't even consider entrepreneurship. Can we as a society do better, so more people realize t…

A lot of 20-somethings — especially the ones with natural intelligence — grew up jumping through hoops. An adult puts up a hoop, you jump through it. A clear series of steps. Take the tests, ace the classes, get into the good college. It's clear what you're evaluated on, and it's clear what you have to do to ace the evaluation. But once kids get out of college, no one's putting up hoops anymore. No one's telling you…

^^^ This. My experience of people at college could classify them into 2 types. Those that were dealt a shitty hand in life and were doing everything possible to get a new deck. And those that knew the game and were just playing along. Do X and you'll receive Y. Good grades means a good job. College is, predominantly, made of the later. The third group of slackers doesn't really count and were gone by the 2nd year.

I was dealt the shitty hand. Single working mom with more kids than resources to handle them. A broke elementary school. I learned early on the social contract between jobs and employees was broken when my mom was laid off and we were constantly fighting the water, electricity, and telephone company to maintain basic services. I signed up for every afterschool program available because I hated having to go to an unairconditioned home in the Florida heat. God must have a wicked sense of humor, my reluctance to stay home meant I did academically well. And eventually getting into a good uni.

When I got to university I was incredibly envious of those around me. Who had the resources to buy a computer when I certainly couldn't. They had everything in life handed to them. I wished I had a tutor but it was expensive. I wished I had a scheduled life because it seemed easier than trying to figure it out. I wished my family wasn't 1000 miles away because for the first time I felt alone. All of these things meant I had to fend for myself and take nothing for granted.

When I see how life is for kids lately I feel sorry for them. Everything is planned out around them with little input from them. You rarely see a kid sign up for basketball or soccer without the parents nearby. I remember signing my moms signature on so many things that when she really did sign something they thought it was a forgery. I remember forging health insurance forms because I couldn't play soccer without it and I knew we didn't have it. God if I would have gotten seriously injured we would have been fucked.

They are told to complete a task and expect a reward. I was told to do something because it had to be done. As my mom would say, "Go to school or I will beat your ass!". Life is actually like that. It can be rewarding, but fundamentally life doesn't reward you for doing a good job. You are trying to avoid getting your ass kicked by life.

Re: On those "Entitled" Twenty-Somethings

#64

Post by timwiseman »

Alex3917 wrote: post #17
TomOfTTB wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but I disagree (I'm a 20-something but not for much longer so I really don't think it counts). Volunteer work is just that. You're supposed to volunteer. It's purpose is to show people the value of sacrifice. Doing volunteer work for Government compensation is called being a Government employee. Plus, as a former low income student I can tell you programs already exist that allow them to go to college for f…

"The purpose [of volunteer work] is to show people the value of sacrifice." No it isn't. It's to help people and/or the community.

True, and excellent point, but that does not change the fact that if you are receiving some form of compensation that is on par with the work being done than it is not volunteer work in the traditional sense. It is, as was said, much closer to a government job.

Re: On those "Entitled" Twenty-Somethings

#65

Post by BearOfNH »

For every complaint about the benefits of seniority, networking, etc., there's an older guy (and usually it IS a guy) who is laid off so a cheaper kid can be hired to replace him.

Of course if you've got a liberal arts degree from a diploma mill, that won't be you.

Re: On those "Entitled" Twenty-Somethings

#66

Post by olliesaunders »

moe wrote: post #6

Quote: Apparently people in their 20s are a bunch of entitled whiners. Judging by the tone of this article I have to say, yes, his premise is dead on. Someone fix the headline: College boy finds out that life isn't fair, cries a river.

I think it's pretty bad if their parents and teachers let "College boy" believe that for so long. This [TED talk](http://ted.com/talks/lang/eng/alain_de_botton_a_kinder_gentl...) might be of interest.

Re: On those "Entitled" Twenty-Somethings

#67

Post by andreyf »

teeja wrote: post #54
edw519 wrote: post #11

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Like OP, I busted my butt in pursuit of a better future, graduated with an BS in Math and an MBA just to work at Denny's for 18 months before finding my first programming job. But I can't imagine ever writing a piece like this. I have only one "understanding". No one is ever going to give me anything, so I just have to suck it up and get it for myself. If OP persev…

Me too, graduated with a degree in the hard sciences, 1974. (They're called that for a reason.) Then I worked as a fry cook, then a dishwasher, then a radio station librarian, then a DJ, then a lumberjack, then a carpenter. THEN I got a real job. Don't misunderstand: kids graduating right now landed in the shit. You're right: the greedy bastards have worked us over good. But guess what kid: we're all in it, and it's…

Things are much better now, then. For every person complaining, there are a lot of people working quietly - I graduated a year ago, and I had no trouble finding a job (and then switching it a couple of months ago) - but that's just one example, maybe I got lucky. Still, I can't think of a single college friend whom I could honestly call smart who can't found a job. Yes, I'm sure the people that wasted their time in college drinking and cheating didn't get much out of it, and are having a tough time now, but I can hardly feel sorry for them.

Re: On those "Entitled" Twenty-Somethings

#68

Post by adrianwaj »

olliesaunders wrote: post #66
moe wrote: post #6

Quote: Apparently people in their 20s are a bunch of entitled whiners. Judging by the tone of this article I have to say, yes, his premise is dead on. Someone fix the headline: College boy finds out that life isn't fair, cries a river.

I think it's pretty bad if their parents and teachers let "College boy" believe that for so long. This [TED talk]( http://ted.com/talks/lang/eng/alain_de_botton_a_kinder_gentl... ) might be of interest.

de Botton: Snobbery is taking a small part of someone and judging them in their entirety by it.

It is an intensely ugly trait.

Re: On those "Entitled" Twenty-Somethings

#69

Post by rsheridan6 »

edw519 wrote: post #11

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Like OP, I busted my butt in pursuit of a better future, graduated with an BS in Math and an MBA just to work at Denny's for 18 months before finding my first programming job. But I can't imagine ever writing a piece like this. I have only one "understanding". No one is ever going to give me anything, so I just have to suck it up and get it for myself. If OP persev…

If that happened to you now, you would be crushed by student loans that would be unpayable on Denny's wages, possibly going into default before you got your first real paycheck.

Re: On those "Entitled" Twenty-Somethings

#70

Post by presidentender »

rsheridan6 wrote: post #69
edw519 wrote: post #11

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Like OP, I busted my butt in pursuit of a better future, graduated with an BS in Math and an MBA just to work at Denny's for 18 months before finding my first programming job. But I can't imagine ever writing a piece like this. I have only one "understanding". No one is ever going to give me anything, so I just have to suck it up and get it for myself. If OP persev…

If that happened to you now, you would be crushed by student loans that would be unpayable on Denny's wages, possibly going into default before you got your first real paycheck.

Or you could work while going to school, skip the partying, ride a bicycle, and keep your debt to a repayable level.

I am 22 and I have a real job. During school, I washed a lot of dishes, picked up a lot of construction site refuse, drove a lot of nails, cut a lot of boards, and cleaned up a lot of spyware. Now I write software, for more than the spyware and dishwashing, but less than the construction. I'll still be able to repay my loans when they come due.

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