Are you paid to look busy? • Hacker News Board

Re: Are you paid to look busy?

#51

Post by pdkl95 » Sat, May 10, 2014, 5:49 PM UTC

zanny wrote: post #39

hippich wrote: post #33

If you are developer or some sort of IT engineer, don't automatically think your job is not BS. Like job of developing thin client to a windows server running licensed software to get around license costs of software, where price is based on number of users... Yes, this types of businesses generate TONS of money from essentially the fact, that supplier and customer could not get in agreement for more reasonable licen…

I'd argue (as would most of the free software community) the creation of proprietary software is entirely bullshit. Because you have to eventually reinvent it with either permissive or copyleft licenses to just avoid the huge black hole that is legal bullshit and bureaucracy around licensing rights to a number that is not even scarce once its made. And until it is foss, you are just denying the users their freedoms t…

While I'd agree with that sentiment for most sold software, there's another aspect to consider. There are some jobs that don't ever really go away, and software is one of them. It's similar at times to the traditional "trades" such being a plumber or electrician.

So while "proprietary" (i.e. closed source or limiting who has access to it) may not be the precise description, a LOT of software is (and will be) "in-house" stuff. This is because while commodity solutions are great in many way, the are general tools, and will never map exactly to the current task and needs of a business.

Just like how the plumber is happy to buy common solutions to piping problems (e.g. standard sizes, common specialized parts that solve problems that show up all the time), a software engineer can pull from Free Software as his "standard parts". In the end, though, because every need is at least slightly different, a business will always need to hire somebody to put those parts together - just like they hire an in-house plumber or other specialist.

A consequence of this, though, is that all that specialized work is not going to be particularly useful outside the place where it was originally used. The occasional useful features can be pushed back upstream, but that still leaves a lot of glue around.

As time goes on, and the collection of "standard tools" grows, I expect the ratio of "glue" to "useful new feature" to increase.

Re: Are you paid to look busy?

#52

Post by spinlock » Sat, May 10, 2014, 5:53 PM UTC

xr09 wrote: post #24

dsirijus wrote: post #9

My employee next to me is working hard. I'm in elinks in terminal on HN and on IRC, with vertical split of htop in tmux. He thinks I'm working hard too, with all those numbers, columns, scrolling output and blinking cursor. I feel so bad right now. I'm going to go actually work.

When reading stuff like this I wonder, how do the Windows folks manage to do the same? A browser disguised as Visual Studio? doubledesktop.exe? I'm so thankful for my *nix with all these little toys.

there was a site called readingatwork.com (I think) where classic novels were formatted as powerpoint presentations. I think that's what windows people do.

Re: Are you paid to look busy?

#53

Post by danso » Sat, May 10, 2014, 5:54 PM UTC

zanny wrote: post #48

danso wrote: post #7

I've had this concept rolling around in my head occasionally...the best path in becoming a better programmer is to sincerely desire to automate yourself out of your job . Instead of backing up a system via GUI every week, figure out the API calls needed to hook up via a script. After a few weeks of triggering that script by hand, write a cron job and a logger that logs the relevant transactions. After awhile of manua…

> Does your company have the foresight to reward you More like to they have the foresight to patent your ideas in their name, take your IP and restrict it via copyright, and then make fortunes off of it while the rest of the world withers in squalor. There is a huge market movement in the IP industry not just because of how it is an obvious quick buck today to just sue everyone and put money down the legal black hole…

Sure, I think this is a legit fear -- which is why keeping it to yourself and whistling while you work may be the path to take.

But again, if you were able to automate it, then someone who is not you will be able to. And more likely, that someone will be a SaaS who really doesn't give a shit about fair labor as it pertains to your situation.

It's likely automation will eat the world...but my hope is that rather than virtual enslavement (or SkyNet), society will have reached a political point where living wages is a popular, enforceable concept, and the human race overall has risen above the economic rat race...but that's a long path (or may require World War 3, in the case of the Star Trek universe). In the mean time, for that political environment to even become favorable, more individual agents -- who are also hopefully, forward-thinking and not-entirely-selfish -- have to push the idea that humans have real value even after their initial grunt work has been automated.

edit: also, this is why I meant "automate" in the most pedant, grinding way...as in, take care of the crap work, even if it means learning how to write a script that has surely been done before (the GUI app is likely based on such a script)...now, if in your automation of the backup routine, you are hit with a Eureka moment and come up with an incredible, unrivaled compression scheme to store your backups...consult a lawyer before writing your idea on paper.

Re: Are you paid to look busy?

#54

Post by hawkharris » Sat, May 10, 2014, 5:55 PM UTC

This reminds me of a study focusing on soccer games. It analyzed A) how often players shot goals toward the left, middle and right sides of the net; and B) how often goalies responded by jumping toward the left, middle and right sides.

The stats revealed a surprising phenomenon. Though opposing players shot toward each area of the goal evenly — about 33% of the time — goalies jumped toward the left or the right 80-90% of the time.

So what explains the irrational behavior of these highly skilled goalies? The researcher who presented this to me and others at a conference argued that it came down to the appearance of productivity. If a goalie leaps left or right and fails to stop the goal, he can claim that he tried his best. But if a goalie remains in the center, even if doing so is the most effective option, he risks looking like he did nothing.

I call this "productivity theater." In other words, there's sometimes a disconnect between what it means to be an effective worker and what it means to appear effective.

To offer just one example from the workplace: in some offices, the culture dictates that employees must stay from 8 to 6 each day. Their schedules may make them look like hard workers, but some are probably checking Facebook or email much of the day. Contrast this with offices that emphasize owning and completing projects rather than working an amount of time. With the second policy, you're likely to find some workers who appear less busy but make more meaningful contributions.

Re: Are you paid to look busy?

#55

Post by paulhauggis » Sat, May 10, 2014, 5:56 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #22

“We should do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery becau…

This sounds great, but you still need money to survive.

This would mean that the few that did work would essentially be supporting the rest of society. Why would I ever want to start a million dollar business if I knew the majority of my earnings would be taken from me by the government to support people that didn't need to do anything??

You don't have to get a crappy job and work for someone you hate for the rest of your life. I started a business 2 years ago and I don't plan on getting a job anytime soon.

You have the freedom to do this..or work for someone..or you could even live in the woods on berries.

Re: Are you paid to look busy?

#56

Post by spinlock » Sat, May 10, 2014, 5:56 PM UTC

reboog711 wrote: post #37

The bulk of my clients pay me hourly, on an as needed basis. I've had a few clients; where it sometimes it feels like they are making stuff up for me to do just so I'll be available when real work comes down the pike. I have mixed feelings about this.. on one hand--billable hours. On the other hand--it is not satisfying to do things with absolutely no business value.

You should hire a VA to do the BS work they give you.

Re: Are you paid to look busy?

#57

Post by hippich » Sat, May 10, 2014, 5:57 PM UTC

zanny wrote: post #39

hippich wrote: post #33

If you are developer or some sort of IT engineer, don't automatically think your job is not BS. Like job of developing thin client to a windows server running licensed software to get around license costs of software, where price is based on number of users... Yes, this types of businesses generate TONS of money from essentially the fact, that supplier and customer could not get in agreement for more reasonable licen…

I'd argue (as would most of the free software community) the creation of proprietary software is entirely bullshit. Because you have to eventually reinvent it with either permissive or copyleft licenses to just avoid the huge black hole that is legal bullshit and bureaucracy around licensing rights to a number that is not even scarce once its made. And until it is foss, you are just denying the users their freedoms t…

Initially I wanted to write about proprietary/opensource software, but knew people here will downvote it, so brought up different example. But I am glad you got message :))

Re: Are you paid to look busy?

#58

Post by qwerty_asdf » Sat, May 10, 2014, 5:58 PM UTC

dsirijus wrote: post #9

My employee next to me is working hard. I'm in elinks in terminal on HN and on IRC, with vertical split of htop in tmux. He thinks I'm working hard too, with all those numbers, columns, scrolling output and blinking cursor. I feel so bad right now. I'm going to go actually work.

Don't worry. The network administrators know how lazy you really are.

Re: Are you paid to look busy?

#59

Post by dang » Sat, May 10, 2014, 5:59 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #22

“We should do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery becau…

That is awesome and from http://books.google.com/books?id=cccDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PP1&pg=PA3...

Also from Bucky:

The Things to do are: the things that need doing, that you see need to be done, and that no one else seems to see need to be done.

Then you will conceive your own way of doing that which needs to be done — that no one else has told you to do or how to do it. This will bring out the real you that often gets buried inside a character that has acquired a superficial array of behaviors induced or imposed by others on the individual.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller

Re: Are you paid to look busy?

#60

Post by KMag » Sat, May 10, 2014, 6:02 PM UTC

reboog711 wrote: post #37

The bulk of my clients pay me hourly, on an as needed basis. I've had a few clients; where it sometimes it feels like they are making stuff up for me to do just so I'll be available when real work comes down the pike. I have mixed feelings about this.. on one hand--billable hours. On the other hand--it is not satisfying to do things with absolutely no business value.

If your client is a medium to large sized company, it may also be a case of needing to use budget or have budget reduced the next year.

A place I once worked one year had a big budget surplus. They bought a Winnebago, affectionately named the Waltabago after Walt, the guy who ran the team. The next year, Walt bought a Sunfire V1280 with his leftover budget. Walt was a good manager and generally a good guy. It's just that the nature of his business had unpredictable ups and downs, so he was incentivized to make justifiable but wasteful purchases in order to avoid over-spending in peak cost years.