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Refactored PHP engine makes Wordpress 20% faster

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Re: Refactored PHP engine makes Wordpress 20% faster

#141

Post by jafaku »

mtbcoder wrote: post #140
jafaku wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think those guys know how to configure for production a hundred frameworks? If you base your decisions on those benchmarks, you are gonna have a bad time.

I'm sure their benchmarks are more than adequate. In either case, if your barometer for what makes a good PHP framework is based on performance, you certainly wouldn't be choosing Symfony. If anything you'd go for for HHVM or Phalcon.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Symfony2 is fast as hell. If you don't think so, you simply don't know how to properly configure it for production. There isn't much real speed you can gain from using weird things like Phalcon, unless you don't know the first thing about caching. In fact, not having all the caching mechanisms that Symfony2 gives you will probably slow down your application, even if your code is written in C.

Re: Refactored PHP engine makes Wordpress 20% faster

#142

Post by jafaku »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #76
adamors wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody mentions how much or little the PHP community thrives. People point out how bad PHP compares against other languages. I don't actually think that faults in a language matter that much if the people using it are competent. Both Javascript and Perl come close to PHP in terms of negative traits, yet a lot of good software was written with both. The same can be said about PHP, the only difference is that people…

JavaScript is a horrible language. The fact that a lot of good software is written in JavaScript because there is no good alternative in the browser does not make it any less a horrible language. The problem with PHP is that it is a horrible language and there are plenty of better options in its niche. Those two factors combine to make PHP a nonstarter for programmers who are familiar with the other options. I disput…

> I dispute that there is any good software written in Perl.

Do you even Linux? Have you ever installed anything? If you pay attention you will notice that lots of the libraries you are using for everything are written in Perl.

Re: Refactored PHP engine makes Wordpress 20% faster

#143

Post by tripzilch »

CHY872 wrote: post #136
newaccountfool wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you enjoy programming in it, and you can create great code then what's the problem?

because real world people don't program because it's fun, they program because they need to make money.

Oh, come on.

I've probably written about 20x as much code in my life for fun, than I did to make money.

Guess I'm not a "real world people".

Though that ratio changes a bit closer to 3:1 looking at only PHP code I ever wrote. The "for fun" element was good times though, my first steps in server side programming :)

Re: Refactored PHP engine makes Wordpress 20% faster

#144

Post by nacs »

jafaku wrote: post #141
mtbcoder wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure their benchmarks are more than adequate. In either case, if your barometer for what makes a good PHP framework is based on performance, you certainly wouldn't be choosing Symfony. If anything you'd go for for HHVM or Phalcon.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Symfony2 is fast as hell. If you don't think so, you simply don't know how to properly configure it for production. There isn't much real speed you can gain from using weird things like Phalcon, unless you don't know the first thing about caching. In fact, not having all the caching mechanisms that Symfony2 gives you will probably slow down your application, even if your code is writte…

You realize that those benchmarks are all open source and they encourage patches from anyone if they can demonstrate it benches better?

So instead of just saying their Symfony benchmarks are bad, submit a pull request to fix whatever you think is wrong so they can get more accurate benchmarks next time.

Also their tests are run without caching for a reason. It's not a test of the language/framework if they just use whatever language to generate a static/cached file and serve it with nginx.

Re: Refactored PHP engine makes Wordpress 20% faster

#145

Post by CHY872 »

tripzilch wrote: post #143
CHY872 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because real world people don't program because it's fun, they program because they need to make money.

Oh, come on. I've probably written about 20x as much code in my life for fun, than I did to make money. Guess I'm not a "real world people". Though that ratio changes a bit closer to 3:1 looking at only PHP code I ever wrote. The "for fun" element was good times though, my first steps in server side programming :)

Something needs to pay the bills. If a PHP project takes longer to complete (I'm not saying it does), is harder to maintain, etc than an equivalent project written in another language, then you will simply be less productive in PHP.

This is the case for any language. No matter how much you enjoy something, if a design choice you made (like choosing PHP, or Perl, or C++) means that you spend more of your time on the project, you've made a mistake. The purpose of a language is to remove as much of the incidental complexity of the project as possible, leaving only the (more enjoyable) intrinsic complexity.

Re: Refactored PHP engine makes Wordpress 20% faster

#146

Post by jafaku »

nacs wrote: post #144
jafaku wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Symfony2 is fast as hell. If you don't think so, you simply don't know how to properly configure it for production. There isn't much real speed you can gain from using weird things like Phalcon, unless you don't know the first thing about caching. In fact, not having all the caching mechanisms that Symfony2 gives you will probably slow down your application, even if your code is writte…

You realize that those benchmarks are all open source and they encourage patches from anyone if they can demonstrate it benches better? So instead of just saying their Symfony benchmarks are bad, submit a pull request to fix whatever you think is wrong so they can get more accurate benchmarks next time. Also their tests are run without caching for a reason. It's not a test of the language/framework if they just use w…

Really? I'm supposed to go and work for free for them, just to prove your wrong? No thanks.

> Also their tests are run without caching for a reason. It's not a test of the language/framework if they just use whatever language to generate a static/cached file and serve it with nginx.

Haha lol, so the tests are explicitly meaningless. I guess I'm done here then.

Re: Refactored PHP engine makes Wordpress 20% faster

#147

Post by jbeja »

ulisesrmzroche wrote: post #126
jbeja wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And who is talking here about a general purpose lenguage in this context, i only care about the web stuff i don't need things that ain't gonna use.

It's also a far more readable language, which matters more than anything in large-scale projects On the other hand, .

Large scale projects doesn't need "more redeable" languages, it needs good engeneering and type checks.
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