Seems another version of the "caveirão" we have here in Rio.
I think there's a big difference between killing people indiscriminately and putting a camera in front of their house.
Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects
31–40 of 94 posts
Re: Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Is the average person allowed to own a vehicle with cameras and park it outside the home of someone they don't like?" Yes.
I know parking there is legal, but I suspect if the vehicle had cameras trained on the house it would be considered harassment.
While I don't necessarily condone it, I don't see how parking in a public place taking camera pictures of things in plain public view would actually be harassment.
Google street view mapping of public roads and views accessible from same is perfectly legal, right? (and perfectly reasonable, right?) Why would this not be legal?
Re: Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects
#33Seems that it is probably less to shame and more to threaten the suspects with surveillance of their criminal activities. I don't have any particular issue with it, but I suspect civil libertarians might. (In particular, "We pretend to watch them, to scare them into thinking we really are watching them, and thus to control them without exerting effort" is called the "panopticon" in academic literature, and is widely…
My main issue with this is that drugs are illegal.
Re: Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yea but the people were being harassed by the illegal activity first. Also the truck was an eyesore for criminals . normal people would actually like it if cops were nearby preventin' crime.
Normal people always imagine that there is no way they would ever be considered criminal enough to themselves warrant such treatment... It sounds like this is your view.
What treatment? It's a scarecrow, not a killer scarecrow.
Yes it's my view in that I am not a drug dealer, it is preferable for me to have this in front of my house (granted there is a drug dealing/violent illegal activity in my neighborhood) to warrant it.
Re: Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the article, the police claimed to have tried all other methods of 'traditional' policing before resorting to the truck: "In the summer of 2006, police were brainstorming ways to rattle a suspected drug dealer. They had exhausted traditional strategies, including undercover operations, and were left empty-handed and frustrated. They decided to park a retired police car in front of the suspect's house."
That's how the idea started. Afterwards they used it to scare off the lady's grandchildren when she went on vacation .
I don't see what's wrong with asking the police to help protect your house from vandalism, even if you are on vacation. The kind of behavior this old lady's kids were engaged in was illegal, and the police helped solve the problem in a cost-effective way. Where's the problem?
Re: Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, if there are reports of criminal activities the cops should stay away and not look at what's going on, dam those meddling cops stopping criminals from doing their deals. Presumably you'd like patroling officers to be fitted with blindfolds to avoid them surveilling people from the street?
The problem is that this is designed specifically for when police don't want to do their job. They believe the people are "bad" and engaged in undesirable activity, but they can't be bothered to investigate and gather evidence of criminal activity. Instead, they want to make their lives miserable, on the principle that the threat of surveillance bothers the guilty, but not the innocent. And any sweet old lady can tag…
I wouldn't say that it's designed for when police don't want to do their job. There are many communities where there aren't enough police to do a good job. Using techniques like this seems like it would allow them to use actual humans where they're more needed.
The cases cited in the article were of neighbors asking the police to somehow combat the unruly elements in their communities. It seems like you're under the impression that this is a matter of "nervous prejudices" running wild, like some Salem witch trials scenario. But what would you, personally, think would be the best course of action if one of your neighbors (not you yourself) was a drug dealer whose activities were a constant nuisance, if not a threat to your well being? What would have the police do if they had tried every other tactic at their disposal? I don't know if you have children, but if you did - would you just stoically endure, put them in danger, on the basis that a technique which works might one day be abused?
I know it's lame to say "think of the children!", but when you're talking about drug dealers and the kind of trouble they bring I think it's appropriate. In high school I worked with a lot of kids from bad neighborhoods and saw the effects of living in an unstable environment. If something like this helps out kids like them, I'm all for it.
/rambling
Re: Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
I do have a bit of a problem with it. Suppose if rather than a truck it were a giant scarecrow with cameras, placed facing the house of people suspected of having committed a crime. Is the average person allowed to own a vehicle with cameras and park it outside the home of someone they don't like? It seems like blatant harassment.
"Is the average person allowed to own a vehicle with cameras and park it outside the home of someone they don't like?" Yes.
You may wish to visit this website: http://maps.google.com.
Pick a location, then hit "street view".
Re: Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's how the idea started. Afterwards they used it to scare off the lady's grandchildren when she went on vacation .
I don't see what's wrong with asking the police to help protect your house from vandalism, even if you are on vacation . The kind of behavior this old lady's kids were engaged in was illegal, and the police helped solve the problem in a cost-effective way. Where's the problem?
The problem is that it went from extreme no-other-solution necessity to a more mundane use. In other words we get too comfortable with it and pretty soon they could be monitoring everyone. It's not a slippery slope. It's just natural progression.
Re: Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who are "civil libertarians"? People who value their civil liberties? People who are willing to do something to protect them? Whatever they are, you say you're not one. Interesting.
Who are "civil libertarians"? People who value their civil liberties? People who value civil liberties are civil libertarians in the same sense that people who value women are feminists. Whatever they are, you say you're not one. Correct. I am also not a feminist.
You didn't answer the question.
Re: Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects
#40So they shame people before they've proven they've committed a crime? They are putting the neighborhood under surveillance? I appreciate the ingenuity, but this is big brother-ish.
Yes, I wouldn't want to live in a surveillance society either, however, that may be preferable to rampant crime -- especially if it's the crime where you fear for your safety. At that point, though, moving is probably the better alternative.
Perhaps public surveillance needs to be conducted like a search warrant and subject to public discussion. It should automatically expire after a certain amount of time.
Also, the evidence can only be used for intended purposes. Police should not be allowed to spy on people indiscriminately.