Metacomment: Thanks to Thoughtworks (no affiliation) for putting this together, and let's do this more often when this sort of discussion breaks out, it's a fantastic idea. Blog missives have their place in the world, but real debate does too.
Hangout with Martin Fowler, Kent Beck, and DHH: May 9th, 11am ET
11–20 of 21 posts
Re: Hangout with Martin Fowler, Kent Beck, and DHH: May 9th, 11am ET
#12We have: Kent Beck who "doesn't care any more what people practice or do w.r.t to TDD" because he uses it as he sees the needs/fits. Martin Fowler who tries to further his catalogue by incorporating newer patterns/methodologies/techniques (REST, NoSQL, NodeJS, MicroServices) that potentially sees "TDD" as "been there, catalogued that, time to see other patterns" and last but not least, DHH, who just recently came out…
He's not your uncle. And who the hell they think they are? I mean, I know Fowler the uml guy, but the rest, I think that this is a joke.
Re: Hangout with Martin Fowler, Kent Beck, and DHH: May 9th, 11am ET
#13We have: Kent Beck who "doesn't care any more what people practice or do w.r.t to TDD" because he uses it as he sees the needs/fits. Martin Fowler who tries to further his catalogue by incorporating newer patterns/methodologies/techniques (REST, NoSQL, NodeJS, MicroServices) that potentially sees "TDD" as "been there, catalogued that, time to see other patterns" and last but not least, DHH, who just recently came out…
You make Martin sound like some sort of crazed software lepidopterist, pinning dead patterns to a musty whiteboard. I am sure he'll represent what Thoughtworks does with regards to TDD. I doubt Kent will just lay still either.
I see this debate as more of a Services vs Product development techniques mindset, with TDD as the background track. Shipping vs Consultant is another way to see it.
Re: Hangout with Martin Fowler, Kent Beck, and DHH: May 9th, 11am ET
#14Maybe we can have a TDD person with from the rails community if you do another hangout? I have a feeling you'll end up talking past each other because you work on different kinds of things.
Perhaps https://twitter.com/garybernhardt
His blog response to DHH's keynote: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/blog/2014/tdd-straw-men-a...
Re: Hangout with Martin Fowler, Kent Beck, and DHH: May 9th, 11am ET
#15We have: Kent Beck who "doesn't care any more what people practice or do w.r.t to TDD" because he uses it as he sees the needs/fits. Martin Fowler who tries to further his catalogue by incorporating newer patterns/methodologies/techniques (REST, NoSQL, NodeJS, MicroServices) that potentially sees "TDD" as "been there, catalogued that, time to see other patterns" and last but not least, DHH, who just recently came out…
You make Martin sound like some sort of crazed software lepidopterist, pinning dead patterns to a musty whiteboard. I am sure he'll represent what Thoughtworks does with regards to TDD. I doubt Kent will just lay still either. I see this debate as more of a Services vs Product development techniques mindset, with TDD as the background track. Shipping vs Consultant is another way to see it.
Whoa, wait a minute right there sir!
Kent Beck actually works for Facebook.
Martin Fowler is some sort of Principal Engineer or Thought Leader or CTO or Architect or some sort (regardless Services vs Product vs Shipping vs Consultant) for Thoughtworks, an organization that does services and products (check their website :)).
Uncle Bob, on the other hand, is definitely more of a service/consultant person.
Re: Hangout with Martin Fowler, Kent Beck, and DHH: May 9th, 11am ET
#16We have: Kent Beck who "doesn't care any more what people practice or do w.r.t to TDD" because he uses it as he sees the needs/fits. Martin Fowler who tries to further his catalogue by incorporating newer patterns/methodologies/techniques (REST, NoSQL, NodeJS, MicroServices) that potentially sees "TDD" as "been there, catalogued that, time to see other patterns" and last but not least, DHH, who just recently came out…
Kent Beck and Martin Fowler do argue that TDD is useful[1][2]. They're just less dogmatic about it than some people.
[1] http://martinfowler.com/bliki/UnitTest.html
[2] https://www.facebook.com/notes/kent-beck/rip-tdd/75084019494...
Re: Hangout with Martin Fowler, Kent Beck, and DHH: May 9th, 11am ET
#17We have: Kent Beck who "doesn't care any more what people practice or do w.r.t to TDD" because he uses it as he sees the needs/fits. Martin Fowler who tries to further his catalogue by incorporating newer patterns/methodologies/techniques (REST, NoSQL, NodeJS, MicroServices) that potentially sees "TDD" as "been there, catalogued that, time to see other patterns" and last but not least, DHH, who just recently came out…
He's not your uncle. And who the hell they think they are? I mean, I know Fowler the uml guy, but the rest, I think that this is a joke.
"Uncle Bob" goes by Uncle Bob. It's a nickname. He likes it. He's also pretty well respected in the software development world.
Kent Beck invented TDD, I think he's pretty qualified.
DHH is the one who started the recent discussion about the value of TDD; in his opinion, it doesn't have any. He's the reason that this conversation is even happening.
Re: Hangout with Martin Fowler, Kent Beck, and DHH: May 9th, 11am ET
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
He's not your uncle. And who the hell they think they are? I mean, I know Fowler the uml guy, but the rest, I think that this is a joke.
"Uncle Bob" goes by Uncle Bob. It's a nickname. He likes it. He's also pretty well respected in the software development world. Kent Beck invented TDD, I think he's pretty qualified. DHH is the one who started the recent discussion about the value of TDD; in his opinion, it doesn't have any. He's the reason that this conversation is even happening.
I know who Robert Martin is, and writing tests before implementing it was described I think back in the 60's, though I don't want to disrespect Kent, DHH is trying really hard to make himself a name by sensational titles. Calling yourself as an uncle for unknown people is a dick move though, very pretentious.
Just to sum it up, this whole new pseudohollywars is just Random noise, just like my comment.
Re: Hangout with Martin Fowler, Kent Beck, and DHH: May 9th, 11am ET
#19This post has dropped from the front page of HN to the 3rd in about 15 minutes? I don't get HN at all.
Re: Hangout with Martin Fowler, Kent Beck, and DHH: May 9th, 11am ET
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Uncle Bob" goes by Uncle Bob. It's a nickname. He likes it. He's also pretty well respected in the software development world. Kent Beck invented TDD, I think he's pretty qualified. DHH is the one who started the recent discussion about the value of TDD; in his opinion, it doesn't have any. He's the reason that this conversation is even happening.
I know who Robert Martin is, and writing tests before implementing it was described I think back in the 60's, though I don't want to disrespect Kent, DHH is trying really hard to make himself a name by sensational titles. Calling yourself as an uncle for unknown people is a dick move though, very pretentious. Just to sum it up, this whole new pseudohollywars is just Random noise, just like my comment.
Just to be clear, the name "Uncle Bob" was given to me by a coworker in 1989. It was in my email and uunet signature for years. (There are kids out there who don't know what uunet was). The name stuck, and I eventually adopted it as a brand.